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Transcript: WGAN-TV | Matterport Axis 1st Impressions16719

WGAN Forum
Founder &
WGAN-TV Podcast
Atlanta, Georgia
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user

Matterport Axis smartphone rotator | Image courtesy of Matterport

WGAN-TV: Matterport Axis Motorized Mount Smartphone Rotator: 1st Impressions | Guests: Gilroy, California-based Dave Avilla, Real Estate Photography and Coldwell Banker Realty Agent | | CalDRE # 01075392 and Jeff Nitschke, Owner, CaptureNW covering North Idaho and Eastern Washington State | | Episode #141 | Thursday, 14 April 2022

WGAN Forum Podcast #90

Transcript: WGAN-TV Live at 5: Matterport Axis 1st Impressions

Hi All,

[Transcript below ...]

1. Are you a real estate photographer thinking about buying a Matterport Axis?
2. Are you a real estate agent thinking about buying a Matterport Axis?
3. Are you a Matterport Pro2 3D Camera user thinking about buying a Matterport Axis?

4. Wondering how the Matterport Axis compares to a Matterport Pro2 3D Camera, Ricoh Theta Z1, X and SC2?
5. As a Matterport Service Provider, how can you position the Matterport Axis to your clients who ask your advice about the product?

Then watch WGAN-TV Live at 5 - 5 pm ET - on Thursday, April 14 2022:

Matterport Axis Motorized Mount Smartphone Rotator: 1st Impressions

My guests will be two WGAN Forum Members that often post reviews in the WGAN Forum:

Jeff Nitschke (@lilnitsch)
North Idaho and Eastern Washington State
[Jeff was previously my guest on WGAN-TV: A MSP Customer Journey: Jeff Nitschke with CaptureNW]

and ...

Dave Avilla (@Dataventurer)
Real Estate Photographer and
Coldwell Banker Realty Agent
Gilroy, California | CalDRE # 01075392
[Dave was previously my guest on WGAN-TV: 31 Statistics to Help Sell Virtual Tours to RE Agents]

Dave plans to shoot the same property with the Matterport Axis and Ricoh Theta SC2.

Jeff plans to shoot the following home with the Matterport Axis that he previously shot with:

1. Matterport Pro2 3D Camera
2. Ricoh Theta Z1
2. Ricoh Theta X
3. Ricoh Theta SC2

Camera: Matterport Pro2 3D Camera | Matterport 3D Tour by CaptureNW Owner Jeff Nitschke

Camera: Ricoh Theta Z1 | Matterport 3D Tour by CaptureNW Owner Jeff Nitschke

Camera: Ricoh Theta X | Matterport 3D Tour by CaptureNW Owner Jeff Nitschke

Camera: Ricoh Theta SC2 | Matterport 3D Tour by CaptureNW Owner Jeff Nitschke

Questions that I should ask Dave and Jeff?



WGAN Forum Related Links

1. WGAN Forum discussions tagged: Matterport Axis
2. Matterport Axis Smartphone Rotator Now Available for Purchase
3. Matterport Axis Will Help Democratize the Creation and Use of Digital Twins
4. Free Matterport Axis + Tripod w/ WGAN Standard Membership (1 Year Pre-Paid)
5. Matterport Blog: Better capture made simple: Matterport Axis™ origin story
6. Matterport Video>Start your Matterport 3D capture journey: Which Device/Why


1. Matterport Axis via Amazon ($79)
2. Matterport Axis + Tripod via Amazon ($89)
3. Matterport Axis + Tripod + Starter Pack ($149)


Prepay for the 1st 12 Months of WGAN Standard Membership

WGAN Standard Membership Return on Investment Calculator

Free Matterport Axis + Tripod with WGAN Standard Membership (12 Months Pre-Paid)


Transcript (Video at Top)
Dan Smigrod: Hi all. I'm Dan Smigrod, Founder of the WGAN Network Forum. Today is Thursday, April 14th, 2022, and you're watching WGAN-TV Live at 5. We have an awesome show for you today. Matterport Axis Motorized Mount Smartphone Rotator: First Impressions. Here to talk to us about that is Dave. Hey, Dave.

Dave Avilla: Hi there. And...

Dan Smigrod: Jeff. Jeff, good to see you.

Jeff Nitschke: Good to see you again, Dan.

Dan Smigrod: Jeff was previously on our show. Jeff Nitschke, owner and catch of CaptureNW in the North Idaho and Eastern Washington State area at: Jeff's previous guest appearance: WGAN-TV, a Matterport Service Provider Customer Journey: Jeff Nitschke with CaptureNW. Dave Avilla has two roles: real estate photographer and Coldwell Banker Realty Agent in Gilroy, California.

That is about an hour and a half south of San Francisco; about 40 minutes south of San Jose. Dave has been on the show before: WGAN-TV: 31 Statistics to Help Sell Virtual Tours to Real Estate Agents. Dave is at:

Thank you both so much for being on the show today. You're prolific posters in the We Get Around Network Forum. You're always giving and sharing. I just thought, well, this would just be perfect. Matterport Axis smartphone rotator came out in the last 10 days. Dave, why don't we begin with. You had a chance to shoot. What's your impression of the tour that you shot with the Matterport Axis?

Dave Avilla: Yeah. Good question. Just the tour itself when I compared it to my existing camera, which is the Ricoh Theta SC2. The quality was good. It did a good job though the camera that I had was a Samsung S20 FE, which is about a year and a half old. It's got a good camera on it. I was looking to see if I can get a better viewpoint with that camera.

Dan Smigrod: Describe your tour though. Were you happy with your Matterport virtual tour? Your Matterport digital twin shot with your Matterport Axis plus the Samsung S20 FE?

Dave Avilla: Yeah. The bottom line, and that's yes, it was satisfactory.

Dan Smigrod: Better than expected? Worse than expected in terms of the end result?

Dave Avilla: End result was about what I was expecting. It did a good job. It compared well to my existing equipment.

Dan Smigrod: Could you tell the difference between, as you mentioned, using Ricoh Theta SC2. Could you tell the difference between using a 360 camera and using Matterport Axis?

Dave Avilla: Well, I'd say it was very difficult. In fact, I actually thought the Axis setup took a little bit better resolution. But the difference is the scanning of the ceiling area and the floor area. I'm sure we're going to talk a little bit more about that, but as far as the basic scan, to me, I thought it was acceptable.

Dan Smigrod: A little better than acceptable?

Dave Avilla: Yeah. A little bit better.

Dan Smigrod: Excuse me, Jeff.

Jeff Nitschke: Did you do the single-pass or did you do the complete pass?

Dave Avilla: I did both. You know what, I saw a difference because, I don't know if we want to talk about that –

Dan Smigrod: Let me ask you about that in a second. Let me get back to Jeff and ask for his initial impression. Jeff, your initial impressions of the actual Matterport tour that you've created with the Matterport Axis and your smartphone.

Jeff Nitschke: I think overall, it did a really good job for what it is. I'm shooting on iOS, I'm shooting on the latest greatest iPhone 13, the Pro Max. It did a really good job for what it is now. I wouldn't replace it with what I currently use is a Pro2 but that's just because I'm using the best of the best anyway.

Dan Smigrod: Well, so the Matterport tour itself, how did you think it compared to a Matterport Pro2 3D Camera shoot?

Jeff Nitschke: I noticed a little bit of twisting in the model. I'm a little bit more subjective to that. Then there were a couple of holes in the mesh. I'm sure if I would have maybe done some more scan positions and followed the wall, that that may have cleared up some of those issues. But overall, I think for what it is, I think it's a pretty decent product.

Dan Smigrod: You keep giving me this qualifier. Is the tour good? Is it okay? Is it acceptable?

Jeff Nitschke: I think it's good. My idea of acceptable is a little bit different because I'm dealing with a little bit higher class of clientele that probably wouldn't accept the Axis as what they would be paying for.

Dan Smigrod: Give us a little deeper dive into how the Matterport Axis, Matterport tour looked compared to the Pro2 and then you have some other 360 cameras that you've been shooting with as well?

Jeff Nitschke: The Pro2 does a much better job. You still get a little bit of "hole" at the ceiling and at the floor but that's the nature of a Matterport camera. But you have a much higher quality image because once again, I do believe that's a 134 megapixel camera equivalent. Then you're getting a much cleaner dollhouse with the Pro camera than you are with the 360 or the Axis.

Dan Smigrod: Do you want to compare it specifically to a Ricoh Theta Z1? Ricoh Theta X? Ricoh Theta SC2? I think you've shot with all those as well as maybe an Insta360, perhaps.

Jeff Nitschke: I haven't shot with an Insta360 camera recently just because I don't like the quality of the Insta. But the Insta is really grainy.

Dan Smigrod: We'll put that aside. Compared to Ricoh Theta – three different versions that you've shot the same model unit with?

Jeff Nitschke: I think it is comparable with 360 cameras. Only the most scrutinized person would probably be able to pick apart what they may or may not like about it. I think it's comparable with some of the 360s. Once again, I think the Z1 or the Theta X is going to ever so slightly bump out in quality because they're a little bit better than the Axis. But once again, I think the Axis is doing a pretty good job for what it is with the phone rotator.

Dan Smigrod: Dave, you started to talk about one rotation, two rotations. It's like one potato, two potato. ;-) Could you tell us a little bit about the shooting? You were talking about up here at the top and down below the zenith, the nadir. What's happening in the tour? What did you try in terms of your experimentation?

Dave Avilla: That's a good question because that impacts what the scan looks like. What I did was, I took a ''Simple Scan'' and the 'Simple Scan' has the camera on the phone facing downwards on the floor at a negative 15 degree angle. It leaves a hole in the ceiling. It was probably about 6 feet in diameter above where the location of the camera is.

Dan Smigrod: It blurred in the zenith?

Dave Avilla: In the zenith, yeah.

Dan Smigrod: How much bigger is that in the Matterport Pro2 3D Camera?

Dave Avilla: Jeff, you've got the answer on that one?

Jeff Nitschke: Once again it's not that big on the Pro2. I want to say that it might be a 24 to 36 inch hole in a Pro2.

Dave Avilla: Yeah. With the Ricoh Theta SC2, I was seen about a 2 foot diameter up at the top. But then when you do a "Complete Scan", you flip the phone up 15 degrees positive and take another scan of the six shots. That closes that diameter down to a couple of feet, 24 inches, which is comparable with the SC2 camera.

Now, one thing I noticed, maybe Jeff, you've got something to say on this. When I took the 'Simple Scan', it did one loop and it generated a picture. The quality was very similar to the SC2 when I took two scans and the software combines those together, the image quality was not as close in color, saturation, contrast, etc. As the 'Simple Scan'. I don't know if you noticed that?

Jeff Nitschke: My experience with the "Simple Scan" versus the "Complete Scan" is, they were similar in quality in mine other than the stitching wasn't nearly as good on the "Complete Scan".

Dan Smigrod: That's interesting. Doing something that maybe took you, how long did it take for the model that you shot, how long did it take to shoot with one pass around? How long did it take?

Jeff Nitschke: The 'Simple Scan', I was able to complete the entire house with the garage and rear patio in 30 minutes.

Dan Smigrod: How long when you tried to double it to make-... The native look better.

Jeff Nitschke: The "Complete Scan", I did not get the rear patio or the garage, it took me two hours.

Dan Smigrod: Two hours?

Jeff Nitschke: Two hours.

Dan Smigrod: For that two hours, or that extra hour and a half, you got the zenith to look a little nicer, and how about the nadir with the tripod?

Jeff Nitschke: The overall dollhouse looked a little bit better, but there were more stitching errors with inside that tour to where you have a little bit of a jagged lines to where they didn't line up quite right, in the actual 360.

Dan Smigrod: This may be a silly question, I asked you both, starting with Jeff. Is it worth shooting the two-hour version versus the half hour version?

Jeff Nitschke: I probably wouldn't. What I would've done instead is I may have picked up a couple of additional scam positions in the single-pass to make a cleaner model.

Dan Smigrod: Dave, for you, was it worth that extra effort?

Dave Avilla: Definitely not.

Dan Smigrod: Definitely not.

Dave Avilla: The benefit is, up at the ceiling, if you're doing a house, people are not looking at the ceiling. You want to keep the level down, so there really wasn't any advantage that I perceived, and especially with the different quality in the result. I found the 'Simple Scan' would be the way to go.

Dan Smigrod: Jeff, with the iPhone 13 Pro Max, you are shooting it on the LIDAR setting, correct?

Jeff Nitschke: Correct. I received the same high "temperature warning" that you had got.

Dan Smigrod: I got a high "temperature warning" after I think it was 11 rotations.

Jeff Nitschke: I think I saw it somewhere in that five or six, but once again, I didn't take my phone out of the case which the instruction book said that I probably should.

Dan Smigrod: Interesting thing to note, because I know that I got a "temperature warning"... We write about that and We Get Around Network Forum. I had it out of my case because I happen to have a very complex case, so I took my case off, but I still got that "temperature warning" ... That made me a little anxious. I wonder if other people have been getting it.

Jeff Nitschke: I just grinned, and I just motored through.

Dan Smigrod: Yeah. Okay. I guess what the warning said is, "we're going to reduce the depth."

Jeff Nitschke: I think it reduced the detail of the LiDAR that the iPhone was capturing.

Dan Smigrod: Yeah. Okay. I really want the depth data and make sure – I think in your case, maybe in your garage, you only did two scans, and so you really wanted the depth data to capture the full space for your model. I noticed it didn't look like you went to a lot of places.

Jeff Nitschke: It didn't go to all four corners. What I'm basically looking for when I go into a garage, so I want to show the garage and then in the Capture app, I'm looking to make sure that there's no blatant holes in there.

Dan Smigrod: Yes and you did that with, I think, two scans. One of them he had to do because you had the car parked in the garage, and you needed the other side in order to complete your model. Incidentally, while we're talking about this – for our viewers – if you want to see the examples that Dave, Jeff and I shot using the Matterport Axis, we have a little shortcut.

Normally I'd send you to and search for the tag: Matterport Axis. But, to go right to the first impressions discussion: www.WGAN.INFO/Axis-examples –I do want to talk about capture, but in the process and before we get into that, I just want to ask, if I came back and gave you a sample Matterport tour.

I'll start with Jeff, if I came back to you, and I gave you a "blind taste test" to say, "here are five models. One was shot with the Matterport Pro2 3D Camera, one with the Ricoh Theta Z1 51GB, the Ricoh Theta SC2, The Ricoh Theta X," which I think is right now in Beta for Matterport, but will come online shortly and lastly, Matterport Axis using an iPhone 13 Pro Max, could you tell the difference?

Jeff Nitschke: I could probably tell the difference. I probably wouldn't be able to nitpick unless I really got in on like say a Pro1 versus a Pro2 because those are very similar. But if I didn't know about the Axis, I might think that it would have been one of the 360 cameras.

Dan Smigrod: You could tell the difference by saying, "I could tell a Pro2 versus a 360 or that other category."

Dan Smigrod: Dave, how about for you?

Dave Avilla: Yeah, I think the same. It would match the quality of at least the SC2.

Dan Smigrod: Could you tell the difference though. If I gave you three or five scans, and you didn't know which was shot with which camera, do you think you could tell the difference?

Dave Avilla: Well, the Theta cameras like the Z1 definitely have a little more detail, like if you look at the lines of the doors and doorways and stuff, they're a little crisper. One of the things that Jeff had a comparison with, if you look at the numbers on the oven, on the cook top, they are much clearer with the more costly cameras.

Dan Smigrod: I think the interesting thing is, my wife and I had the house renovated and we did a walk-through with the general contractor and we walked around with a flashlight looking at the paint job and he says, "I'm sorry, but no normal person walks around with a flashlight when you walk through a house to check out the paint job.

I think we really have to walk through your house with normal lighting without being so persnickety to look that close, because nobody does that except on the day that you're inspecting the quality of the paint job." Are you guys a little bit too tough one maybe Matterport Axis to say, "nahhhh, we can tell the difference. I'm going back to the Pro2."

Jeff Nitschke: I might be a little bit biased there just because I've been shooting with the Pro cameras since the Matterport system came out. But I've also had experience with the mesh or something not doing – Still happens from time to time with the 360 cameras to where you get the pancaking of a model. Something tells me that that could probably still be an issue with this Axis as well.

Dan Smigrod: All right. I'll offer my opinion here because I shot with the Matterport Axis with an iPhone 13 Pro. I was super-surprised at how awesome it was, and I shot around my studio here, which means I had the camera way closer than 4 feet and all the stitching looked nearly perfect.

I was really pleasantly surprised in the HDR on the windows and everything looks really good, so I think there's a whole separate conversation we're about to have about the process of capturing, but my perception is probably most clients, except Jeff's, would probably not notice the difference, if asked to look at the final product, not how you showed up with whatever gear that you showed up with, but just the average person looking at a tour and probably doesn't care about that thing in the ceiling and the blur thing in the bottom because they're there to buy a house or make some other actionable thing as opposed to, "well that thing in the bottom, we could fix that by taking two hours to scan it rather than than a half hour."

Jeff Nitschke: In the two hour, I actually got more [tripod] legs in it because I actually switched over to my Manfrotto because I didn't want to lose my phone. Once again, if I were to do that again, I'd really have to play with the legs to suck the legs in a little bit because I ended up with legs and just about every scam position.

Dan Smigrod: That's something to talk about. When we move on to the process of capture. Let's assume that the tour is either good enough or awesome, however, one wants to define that, but now let's talk about the process of actually creating it. Dave, what was your experience using the Matterport Axis and your Samsung S20S FE smartphone?

Dan Smigrod: How did that compare to use a Ricoh Theta SC2 when you shoot Matterport Tours? What was different about the Matterport Axis versus the Ricoh Theta SC2 360 camera?

Dave Avilla: Big difference: timing.

Dave Avilla: The scans to loop around the six shots takes about 20 seconds, and then you've got to walk back in the room if you've had to leave or you're walking around it as it scans. Then you've got to undo the knob, reset the angle, tighten the knob, get out of the picture, hit the remote, and another 20 seconds or so.

Dan Smigrod: Totally confused, what's this changed the angle. Didn't you do it as just one pass and.

Dave Avilla: I'm talking about about "Complete Scan".

Dan Smigrod: I'm going to suggest this on a "Complete Scan" that Jeff took two hours instead of in a half hour. I didn't even an attempt and you tried it. I didn't understand why Matterport even offers that setting, I just think it just made it extra complex and if I was them, I would just disable it so that you only have two settings.

Jeff Nitschke: The reasoning on that Dan, is for the iPhone or the Androids that don't have the wide-angle lens.

Dan Smigrod: Ah! Ah! I'm shooting with an iPhone 13 Pro.

Jeff Nitschke: We're all spoiled and we have the fancy cameras, the fancy camera phones with wide-angle lenses. When I talked to Matterport, they actually suggested that the wide-angle lens only doing the single-pass.

Dave Avilla: That makes sense.

Dan Smigrod: Ah! Okay. Is that true Dave for your phone as well? It has a wide angle lens on it?

Dave Avilla: Yeah, it does.

Dan Smigrod: Attention world! If you don't have a wide-angle lens, you may have to do twice around and your pain point is probably going to be so high, it's not going to be worth it, so either upgrade your phone, or look at a different solution. I can't even imagine spending two hours to shoot something that can take a half hour.

Jeff Nitschke: Time is money!

Dan Smigrod: Time is money! So Dave, was that your biggest conclusion? Time is money?

Dave Avilla: It was because with the SC2; takes like 25 seconds to a scan, and the other thing with an Android phone and this was a mention that the Jeff had, there's no sound to tell you that it's done with its rotation, so either you've got to poke your head around the corner, look at your watch, is it done? Or if you're in a big enough room, walk around behind the camera so that you don't get into the picture, that's a nuisance.

Whereas the little SC2, it chirps and once it chirps, it's processing the image. You can go and grab the monopod and move it and then and you're moving, you're moving through the –

Dan Smigrod: Can you hear that?

Jeff Nitschke: No, that motor is really quiet, and if there's any.

Dan Smigrod: I have the sound setup so you can hear the shutter. You can't hear that?

Dave Avilla: No. Well, I can't hear it from here.

Jeff Nitschke: Yeah. I heard the shutter of that time,

Jeff Nitschke: I think what he was saying is that capture – that shutter click wasn't coming across on Android. Is that correct?

Dave Avilla: Yes, that's correct.

Dan Smigrod: I see. So you don't hear any of that and the tone.

Dave Avilla: There's nothing that was absolutely quiet.

Dan Smigrod: That's interesting. So that goes on the Axis wish list. We started a wishlist in the WGAN Forum. Jeff, you've already posted to the Matterport Axis wishlist discussion, to add sound to the Matterport Axis so that you actually know it's done with the scan otherwise –

Jeff Nitschke: Or a louder motor to warn you –

Dan Smigrod: Or a louder motor otherwise, you're going to peak and you're going to do a cameo in one of your shots.

Jeff Nitschke: Correct.

Dan Smigrod: Jeff, I think Dave's overall conclusion of Matterport Axis capture versus a 360 camera was speed. What was your takeaway in comparing either to a 360 camera or to a Matterport Pro2 in terms of the capture process.

Jeff Nitschke: As far as the capture process, I think it's going to be similar if doing the single spin with the Matterport Pro2 3D Camera and the Axis. I would also agree that any of the 360 cameras are going to be a bit quicker because once again, they're a one touch one-click capture, so it's boom! Click! You're onto the next scan position.

Dan Smigrod: If that's the biggest difference, then I really do want to talk about the gear, but maybe I'll just switch directions for a moment and say, well, "who is the Matterport Axis for?"

Jeff I'm going to ask that question to you, because you're a full-time professional real estate photographer, shooting high-end photography, photos, video, aerial and probably visual storytelling things that I'm not even aware of. As a professional real estate photographer, would you ever buy a Matterport Axis?

Jeff Nitschke: Well, I did, so I can intelligently speak about it, but I think it's really geared towards somebody who is just wanting to dip their toes into Matterport.

That has heard about this Matterport thing and now is wanting to try it before moving into a much more expensive camera system. Let's say you're a mom and pop rental or you have a couple of vacation rentals, this is an easy way for you to get into that with the smartphone that you already have in your pocket and create a Matterport asset of whatever your property may be.

Dan Smigrod: Dave, let me ask you the same question, because you wear two hats or in our digital world, you wear two avatars. First as a real estate photographer and second as a real estate agent, what's your takeaway in terms of who Matterport Axis is for?

Dave Avilla: Well, I'll answer the question as a professional photographer first, because for me the time issue and the ease of moving the equipment around the room is so much easier with a and a 360 camera that the difference between spending $90 for the package, the Axis kit, and $280 for a Ricoh Theta SC2, you're going to make that up savings wise after your first couple of gigs.

Dan Smigrod: Stay on this topic for me for a moment.

Dave Avilla: Yeah.

Dan Smigrod: As a real estate photographer. As Jeff says, "Time is money! "

Dave Avilla: Yeah.

Dan Smigrod: If you're a photographer, is it possible for a real estate photographer who's never done Matterport, that Matterport Axis is the training wheels to get started. To dip your toe in it and say, "Oh yeah, I'll go buy a more expensive camera, but I already got a tripod for $79 or maybe go for the $149 and get five Matterport tours for a year."

Jeff Nitschke: I believe that's exactly what this tool is.

Dan Smigrod: Training wheels for real estate photographers. Dip your toe in it.

Jeff Nitschke: Yeah, they dip your toe in it. Whether you're a real estate photographer, a real estate agent or say, a mom and pop with some rentals that you want to get into.

Dan Smigrod: Well, Dave is a real estate agent. How about from that avatar, from that hat?

Dave Avilla: Yeah. I was really focused on that, because the real estate agents are looking at – out of pocket to do the marketing before they even sell the property. That's why in my research a large percentage of them are not using the 360 tours, because of the cost package.

This is where I would divide into people who maybe have one home every month or every couple of months and they could do it themselves if they're technically skilled enough.

The other part of that package situation is, a lot of real estate agents are in the 50 plus age range and a lot of them are women. Not to diminish the technical capabilities, but personally seeing what goes on in my office with the agents and the difficulties they have.

Dan Smigrod: I'll say it a little bit differently. Rather than talking about age or sex, is to say if you're not technology savvy, then even this Matterport Axis may be a challenge. Is that a way to describe it?

Dave Avilla: Yeah. You're very gracious, Dan. Yeah, that's what I'm getting at.

Dan Smigrod: As someone who's almost 40 years old ;-)

Dan Smigrod: I'm sensitive to that topic. I'll just say if your technology, let me turn it around and ask that question. You're a real estate agent.

Dan Smigrod: How tech savvy do you need to be in order to be able to use Matterport Axis? Did you find it hard or did you find it hard to take it out of the box, set it up in the Capture app and publish to Matterport? You're tech savvy, what about those that are not?

Dave Avilla: Well, there are two parts of this. Because the first part is the capture, setting the thing up and capture, then you're into the Matterport software.

Do you know how to put the mirrors in? Do you know how to put the windows in? That's where it gets a little more trying. You're going to have to spend some time. There's no getting around it. It's going to take some time to learn how to produce the tour that's going to look acceptable.

Dan Smigrod: Let's actually jump into the technology. We've talked about the tours and they're probably good or good enough or acceptable. In my case I'm totally thrilled and I probably can't tell the difference when I look at it. I don't think most clients, except Jeff's clients, will be able to tell the difference.

Dave Avilla: I will agree.

Dan Smigrod: In the capture process, there's two forks in the road. You might say, if you're going to be doing any volume, then you must upgrade at least to a 360 camera or to a Matterport Pro2 3D Camera depending on what you're doing or there's these two forks in the road.

One is you are either looking for a training wheels experience – an on ramp to the highway – and can say at a price point of $79 for the Matterport Axis or another $10 for the tripod that comes with it or for a little bit more; $149 have five active Matterport tours at any one time.

That probably sounds like a deal, until you're doing a lot of Matterport, which as soon as you're up to 60 miles an hour on the highway, I think we would agree this is not the right tool if you're doing volume.

Jeff Nitschke: Correct.

Dave Avilla: I agree.

Dan Smigrod: If you're doing one house once every other month, it's your vacation rental, you're doing some, but as soon as you hit any volume where time is money, this is not the solution for you.

Jeff Nitschke: I agree.

Dan Smigrod: Perfectly fine. On ramp, perfectly fine. Get a taste of Matterport, perfectly fine. Does that sum it up?

Dave Avilla: Well, one other category I would add, is one shot use. Like you mentioned, a vacation rental. Somebody that wants to do their own 360 and maybe wants to play around a little bit if they wanted to get that and shoot.

Dan Smigrod: It's perfect. It's literally perfect.

Dave Avilla: Yeah.

Dan Smigrod: It solves a problem, but you gotta be tech savvy. Let's talk about that. Let's break it down. Jeff, you had some challenges. You started writing about the tripod. Why don't we begin with the tripod that comes with it. What was your assessment and why?

Jeff Nitschke: It felt a little Fisher-Price.

Dan Smigrod: Meaning, it felt like a toy?

Jeff Nitschke: Correct?

Dan Smigrod: Keep in mind it's $10.

Jeff Nitschke: I understand that. I just wouldn't feel comfortable having that setup outside anywhere. With a slightest breeze, that's taking your $80 investment along with your $1,000 phone with it.

Dan Smigrod: You were kind enough to do – You bought it. You tested it. What's going to happen with that tripod?

Jeff Nitschke: It's probably going to sit in the box that is still in.

Dan Smigrod: Meaning that was because you were concerned about your 13 Pro Max phone and was it because of the tripod? Was it because of the Matterport Axis rotation?

Jeff Nitschke: It's really top heavy and if it's outside with the slightest amount of breeze. I was afraid that any breeze that came along was going to knock the whole rig over.

Dan Smigrod: Dave, did you have any concerns about the tripod at all, Matterport tripod?

Dave Avilla: Well, I think it did a good job and I was just shooting inside, so I didn't think about the wind thing. It's definitely more stable than a . But if you've got any photography equipment already and you've got a tripod, your photography tripod is going to be more stable.

Dan Smigrod: I think I should point out for our viewers that Jeff was the first one to identify this that Matterport Evangelist Amir Frank put together two excellent videos on the Matterport Axis. Unfortunately, the tripod that he used in the videos that were created on February 8, 2022 was different from this tripod.

If you watch those videos, know that the tripod is different. I could imagine Amir is scrambling to update, but it's a different tripod. Do you think this tripod was a better or worse decision than the one that they were showing?

Jeff Nitschke: If you look in some of those earlier tours, I think I caught one where he's in the mirror, but he's also holding onto that tripod. What does it capture?

Dave Avilla: I was watching it and I noticed it shakes a little bit and then it stops.

Dan Smigrod: That was the one that we didn't buy. That was the one with the initial video.

Dave Avilla: I think they probably upgraded it.

Dan Smigrod: Dave you didn't have any angst about losing your smartphone because of the tripod?

Dave Avilla: No. I thought it was pretty secure inside.

Dan Smigrod: Do you have any angst in terms of, I don't know about you, but my phone is $1,000 plus. Did you have any angst about putting it up here in the Matterport?

Dave Avilla: No. It's very securely attached. It screws into the tripod really securely. There's a rubber grommet there that tightens it up. No, I thought that part of it was good.

Jeff Nitschke: I agree with that for indoor use. Indoors, I wouldn't have any real issues. It's anytime that you start stepping outside is where I would really have any issue with using that particular tripod.

Dan Smigrod: When I looked at the tripod I would say, again, it's training wheels for Matterport. It's good for a couple tours so that you can maybe make a decision. Do you want to invest in a $300 360 camera, $400, $1,000 360 camera or today Matterport Pro2 3D Camera $3,395?

Plus, you really need a case. Plus you need an iPad. Plus you need something to hold it, anyway. My takeaway on the tripod, I've gotten through good quality professional Manfrotto tripods that I've worn out. I just would imagine if anybody was doing any volume, these snap things here, they're not going to last too long. I noticed the tightening of the stuff here. I just had angst.

But it's 10 bucks is an Add On and I think for what it is, it's okay. I want to ask more about the gear. Dave, were you happy about how this thing works? Rotates. Attaches? Configures?

Dave Avilla: Yeah. For $79 without the tripod, I think it's an amazing feat of engineering. Because they have that little rotator. It's a very solid little bundle. That the metal parts that hold the phone are solid and that the software that's in there to make the thing work, it's pretty amazing for that cost.

Dan Smigrod: Jeff.

Jeff Nitschke: I would agree with that. The rotator itself feels really well constructed and feels worth every bit of that $79.

Dan Smigrod: I was impressed that when it grips the phone, Dave, you mentioned it, it's got these pads and I've probably used probably five or seven other brands of rotators over the last 10 years. This one actually felt like it was securing my phone and I didn't have the angst about whether it was going to slip out. Did you all have that impression too?

Dave Avilla: Yeah, it has good grippers on it.

Dan Smigrod: Good grippers and it's got this, I don't know what you call that some gear gripping thing for changing the angle and that looked pretty secure. I think I was pleasantly surprised that the hardware was maybe better than I expected for the 79 bucks.

Dave Avilla: I think I'd agree. That was impressive for that price.

Dan Smigrod: Before we move on to setting it up and getting it to work with the Capture app, did you have any other observations about the gear itself, maybe Jeff?

Jeff Nitschke: I was surprised that it was a 3/8" mount on the top of that little tripod.

Jeff Nitschke: Instead of a quarter-twenty [2/8"], in that case, I would have left that quarter-twenty the three-eighths adapter out of the Axis.

Dan Smigrod: Here's what we're talking about here. This actually is a professional mount.

Jeff Nitschke: Correct.

Dan Smigrod: I don't know if it timed out here. Let me see if I can just turn it off if I still have it on. That's on. I can see the green lights, then we press it to turn it off. Here it is. It actually shipped with this piece that went in here that would make it really connect to a consumer grade tripod.

Jeff Nitschke: Correct.

Dan Smigrod: Is your observation, since it's shipping with a professional tripod mount, that they probably should have taken that out?

Jeff Nitschke: No. I think this once again, this goes back to I think they last minute probably switched to this tripod versus the one that Amir was using.

Dan Smigrod: Yeah.

Jeff Nitschke: Because the one that Amir was using was actually using the quarter-twenty mount instead of the three-eighth.

Dan Smigrod: I think it was one of two things. 1) if they looked at their own marketing video and said, "when that thing rotates the camera is actually shaking."

That's not really a confidence builder. 2) the other thing just might be the supply chain that's what we built it around but we can't get them: one or the other. What about this remote? Did you all have any thoughts on the remote?

Jeff Nitschke: I think that remote worked surprisingly well.

Dan Smigrod: Jeff, did you try using it where there was a wall and you had to hide behind the wall and use it?

Jeff Nitschke: I had no issues. I even went over to the other side of the house on a couple of occasions and I still had decent connectivity with that little clicker.

Dan Smigrod: Dave, did you use the remote?

Dave Avilla: Yeah, I did and I thought it was slick. There's a place on the side of the rotator – where your hand is – where you can stick it. The magnet sticks on the side of the rotator.

Jeff Nitschke: The little round circle that's on the Axis.

Dave Avilla: Yeah. Just snaps on there. That was pretty cool.

Dan Smigrod: It's on there pretty good.

Dave Avilla: Instead of carrying it around your pocket or set it down somewhere, you can just clip it on there.

Dan Smigrod: Yeah.

Jeff Nitschke: It will be interesting to see if they sell that as an accessory for when you lose it. ;-)

Dan Smigrod: It is easy to lose. Let's see what else that came with. This came, I guess on the top of my tripod. Is that what that was?

Jeff Nitschke: Why I covered the three-eighths.

Dan Smigrod: I don't remember what this little band was here. It did come with a nice case. It looks like it would actually keep everything together in one place.

Jeff Nitschke: That little rubber band is from your USB-C cable.

Dan Smigrod: Dave, you had some questions about that cable that it came with.

Dave Avilla: Well, I saw the cable and I don't have a cable like that in my collection of cables and I have no idea how you'd use a double-ended USB-C cable. You can't plug it into a charger.

Dan Smigrod: I had it earlier.

Jeff Nitschke: I have a couple of the USB-C wall mounts just because I'm an Apple guy, but I didn't even take mine out of the kit. I just used one of my other USB-C chargers to charge/ .

Dan Smigrod: It had USB-C on both ends of the cable. I had to scramble a little bit to go find a charger to do the charging because I have a lot of old USB-type chargers, but I did have one of the cables.

That was interesting. Is there anything else in terms of the gear, any observations, the equipment? I think what I'm hearing is for the money, it was either a good value or an exceptional value. Again, back to these "training wheels".. If you want to get started with Matterport, it's a great way to start.

Jeff Nitschke: I think it's a great value for what it is. I think it's well-well priced for the equipment which you received.

Dan Smigrod: I'm going to ask about the setup of the gear and the pairing with the app in a moment. But I did want to ask a question because I know Matterport has been talking in their media releases about – they expected companies are going to buy –

My impression was dozens or hundreds and ship these to their remote offices to be capturing spaces. I'll give you my bias and ask you to react. My bias is, I'm not sure that in an employee once they use their own phone, on this thing.

Dan Smigrod: We're watching our phones like a hawk, but I'm not sure that somebody wants to volunteer their phone when they receive this. The other thing, Matterport has to address this issue, is if you do 11 scans with an iPhone 13 Pro set on LiDAR and you get a "temperature warning" ...

Jeff Nitschke: Are you cooking your phone?

Dan Smigrod: Pardon.

Jeff Nitschke: Are you cooking your phone?

Dan Smigrod: Are you cooking your employee's phone, who reluctantly did it to say, "that's enough for me, I'm not doing this. I'm concerned about my phone dropping and now I'm concerned about burning it up." Is Matterport being a little bit too aggressive to think that there's going to be a tone of recipients and corporations that are going to go scan with this?

Jeff Nitschke: No. Who wants to answer first?

Dan Smigrod: Jeff.

Jeff Nitschke: I spent a little bit of time in real estate brokerage across a couple of different brands and I could see a couple of brokerages buying this thinking that they're going to have agents with a line around the block to come and do this, but I don't see agents lining up to check this out to scan it themselves. They would much rather write a check and to have somebody do it for them.

Dan Smigrod: I'm not even thinking real estate agents though, I'm thinking corporate offices that have retail spaces. And they got 3,000 retail spaces. This is only a $89 solution with a tripod, we'll just have them use their own phone and scan this space.

Jeff Nitschke: Other commercial spaces I think once again they're going to be looking for higher quality.

Dan Smigrod: If they're okay with the quality, is an employee going to put their own phone in this device?

Jeff Nitschke: Probably not.

Dan Smigrod: I don't know. I have a bias on that. Dave, do you have any thoughts on that?

Dave Avilla: No. I think I'd agree with you, although I had not thought about that. I thought the idea of sending it out to a store may be that's got displays that they want to check and make sure the displays are set up and so they have people send in a scan. But putting your phone on that, that's a good point. But I think probably you'd find somebody that would do it.

Dan Smigrod: Let's switch gears and talk about the actual setup. I take this stuff out of the box and somehow I get it to pair with the Bluetooth. And somehow I get it to upload to Matterport. I think the three of us are pretty savvy with this so I'll just assume that the three of us somehow we figured it out.

Jeff Nitschke: It took me a couple of minutes when I first set it up because the first thing I went into is I went into settings. I was setting up a camera like I do for my other Capture devices, before I read the instructions that I had to do that through Capture. Once I read that I had to do it through Capture, it was really easy to set up.

Dan Smigrod: Ditto for me. I did literally the same thing, I didn't look at the instructions. I just went to where my Bluetooth devices were, I didn't see it showing up. I'm scratching my head.

Jeff Nitschke: This thing stop working?

Dan Smigrod: Sure enough, that's the takeaway tip from today's show, if you pair the Bluetooth within the Matterport Capture app.

Dave, since you're this dual avatar of a photographer and a real estate agent, could you imagine the agents in your office figuring out the process of setting up a Matterport Cloud account, downloading the Matterport Capture app, setting up the Matterport Axis, pairing physically the Matterport Axis with their smartphone, and then pairing the Matterport Axis plus smartphone with Bluetooth, doing the capture and then uploading to Matterport Cloud?

What's your impression? Is this easy-peasy for the average person to do or is this going to be a struggle unless you're tech savvy?

Dave Avilla: While we're talking about the average person and easy-peasy, I don't think it's easy-peasy. There's too many steps there. By the way, I'll throw my hat in the ring and say, I tried to pair through Bluetooth and I got a request for a passcode and it's like what the passcode. I think the little fold-out instructions that come with it didn't even tell you when to turn on the rotator. That would've been helpful.

Dan Smigrod: Can I say parenthetically? Because I thought about these instructions even though I know what to do. I didn't think this was clear.

Dave Avilla: Yeah.

Dan Smigrod: I'm hoping one of our viewers takes it upon themselves to either rewrite the instructions for the We Get Around Network Forum Community, or creates a video showing the process of how to pair the phone because I think when I literally try to follow the instructions, it's just not there for me. You both I think are smiling a little bit. Did you have the same reaction?

Jeff Nitschke: To summarize, once again, I haven't even read the entire instruction booklet yet, I just read what I needed. Once I found out that I had to pair through the Capture app, I was up and running in just a minute or two.

Dan Smigrod: Dave, I want to go back to the average person, because you're not average, you're tech savvy. This is not hard for you. But for someone who's not tech savvy, are they going to figure this out?

Dave Avilla: To get it connected, the instructions would be helpful and it's not difficult because after I followed the instructions and tried to connect through the app, you have to have pictures of where it is on the screen, and that kind of stuff so people know what they're looking for.

But I think the steps after that to get a working model up on, like you said, you have to set up an account, you have to upload it, when do you know that it's been uploaded? I get an email. All that stuff, somebody has to have the initiative and the reason to go through that stuff, and it's usually going to save some money.

Jeff Nitschke: You need that hand-holding, "Welcome to Matterport video or tutorial" to where it's like welcome to Matterport. First thing that you're going to want to do is set up your account, give us your credit card information, and then go from there. Then they're probably also needed, here's how to do it on Android and here's how to do it on iOS.

Dave Avilla: Yeah.

Dan Smigrod: That's kind of my impression. I'm pretty visual. It was nice that they had these pretty pictures of different uses of it, but I really thought it needed those kinds of pictures on the instruction side because when I first put the phone in, I put it in backwards. There's the Matterport logo back there and they were my lenses, but I did it the other way.

Jeff Nitschke: Having that with the Samsung with the three vertical lenses and having the iPhone with the three and the triangle and just a little illustration of where that goes in that camera mount and how to adjust that, just an image on that would be worthwhile in that manual.

Dan Smigrod: I think what I'm hearing from you Dave is someone has to have a problem that they're motivated to go through the hoops to figure it out. We all had Matterport Cloud accounts so we didn't have to think about that piece of the puzzle.

We already had the Matterport Capture app, probably on our phone so we didn't have to think about downloading the Capture app. We understand the camera rotating so the process of Capture didn't really seem foreign to us, but I just wonder about that pairing of the equipment, and the pairing of the Capture app to the device through Bluetooth.

Dan Smigrod: Does Matterport think that it's easier than it is, or am I just obsessing here? It really isn't that hard and everybody will figure it out who's interested in doing this.

Jeff Nitschke: I don't know. I've sat in rooms full of agents that have meltdowns trying to connect to the Wi-Fi in an office meeting day.

Dan Smigrod: Maybe I asked the question differently. If you're a Matterport Service Provider, you're using a Matterport Pro2 3D Camera, $3,400 camera when I bought mine $4,500 camera, should we feel threatened by the Matterport Axis paired with a smartphone or does this create a bigger market because more people will be exposed and creating Matterport tours. "This is crazy, I can't do this for myself, I'm going to outsource this."

Jeff Nitschke: I know that we're definitely going to have some of those belly aches, I'm not personally afraid just because once again, I think at least most of my clientele prefer that higher-quality. Do I think there could be a little bit of cutting at some of the professional tour people possibly because it is a cheaper entry point, and a way for somebody that might charge a little less than maybe I do.

Dan Smigrod: I can't imagine a photographer attempting to use this for professionals – because it's too time-consuming. I don't know if this matters at all. Maybe I don't know if the word is [snob] or something. But you show up for a shoot like this, it doesn't even look professional.

Am I being nutty, like you have to show up with some ginormous piece of equipment in a big case?

Jeff Nitschke: I spent $200 on my monopod that I use with my 360 cameras, because once again, it's a quality mono plot and it looks the part.

Dave Avilla: I was interested in being able to get enough information so that I could respond to agents that say, "hey, have you heard about that thing? What do you think?" I think how I would position it is, "hey a great entry if you feel like you're technically able to get through the process" and I would mention what that was. "You've got to set up an account.

You've got to download the software. You've got to connect the camera and then upload it," and if you really want to scare up a little bit, tell him about the fact that they've got to go in and they've got to make some edits on the floor plan map for windows and mirrors.

Which is why I think the people that are going to be most interested are the ones who are not doing a high volume because if they're doing a high volume, they're making enough money to pay somebody, to get in and say, "hey I been hearing about the 360 stuff, I want to be able to show my client in a listing presentation that I offer 360s."

If they're willing to put the time in and they learn how to do it, they're going to save a few bucks and they're going to start making money, and they say, "Hey Dave, could you come over and do the shoot for me I just don't have time to do it myself." I think from that standpoint, it's a good thing.

Dan Smigrod: I think you with two hats I think has an interesting strategy, correct me if I'm wrong and it may be you are not still doing this but, you're happy to do shoots for agents in your office because you want to be the open house person in terms of getting leads in the open house if I'm not mistaken.

Dave Avilla: I'm starting to charge, plus I've got other stuff. Now I do the drone, I got a drone licensed and I've got a camera that can shoot the pictures and the video tour, so it's the turnkey solution with a single-page website and that stuff.

Dan Smigrod: Incidentally while we've been sitting here my phone has been beeping and I do find – I don't know but I go through withdrawals if my phone is not next to me and in my pocket. This is really hard for me to put my phone more than three feet away from me, because of how it's engineered.

Dan Smigrod: I can't make this picture go away. It's hidden behind here and so if my phone starts the ring, all I can do is turn the ringer off, but then I won't hear it make noise.

Dan Smigrod: Anyway, I'm probably in the weeds on that.

I think probably my takeaway from today's show is if you watch to this point and you're saying, "well, should I get it and I'd get it," if you look at it as probably training wheels for Matterport and it's a good one ramp at whether you're paying the $79, $89 or $149, it's probably – your a business person, whether you're a real estate agent, photographer, you own a bed and breakfast, you own a house for rent, whatever it is and you're thinking about this, it's an easy training wheels to Matterport experience.

Then if you do any volume and I would probably say more than 10 Matterport tours you're going to quickly upgrade either to a 360 camera or to a Matterport Pro2.

Jeff Nitschke: Once you get out of that Starter Account Profile, this is no longer the device for you.

Dave Avilla: I think it's important to mention too, Dan, that if you buy the camera and the tripod, you still have to have a plan. The starter plan which is either $9.99 a month, and in fact, they don't even have an annual plan offered. You can get it with the kit, save a few dollars. They're like $20 off of a year.

Dan Smigrod: I thought that was a good price. That works out, $5 a month instead of $10 a month and you get up to five tours live at any one time, I did notice if you're interested in data at all, you can't order a MatterPak presently. You can't order the BIM File. If you are thinking about Matterport for data, this is not that solution. I think this is really for virtual tours; creating a 3D model.

Jeff Nitschke: I just couldn't imagine that data being very good with any of the stitching errors that may come out of the phone rotator.

Dan Smigrod: Time will tell. That'll be interesting. I think what we'll probably see at some point is a professional rotator, because I think as a member of the We Get Around Network Forum, pointed out to say, "hey, you upgrade your smartphone every year or two, that's an easier decision than upgrading to maybe a Matterport Pro2 3D Camera every year or two and if you had a rotator that may be rotated fast and you felt confident in it."

But again, to speak to your point, Jeff, the LIDAR data has to be good enough that you can use it for data capture and it doesn't create all these artifacts and everything else. Anyway, I didn't mean to jump in. Before we wind it up, did you either have questions for each other?

Jeff Nitschke: Did you have some questions that you were asking earlier before we went on camera?

Dave Avilla: Not that I can recall, maybe we just chatted about that.

Dan Smigrod: We've probably covered it then.

Dan Smigrod: Jeff, did you have anything before we go? Did you have anything that you wanted to say, Dave?

Jeff Nitschke: I'm good.

Dan Smigrod: Dave?

Dave Avilla: I would just repeat. I think it's a good package for the price and if you fit into that niche, they can use it for personal things like the rental or the bed and breakfast situation, you'd like a one time shot, actually I wouldn't use it for bed and breakfast. I'm at the Airbnb. Would be useful.

Jeff Nitschke: Or at the first time agent to where maybe you only have one or two listings.

Dan Smigrod: One or two shoots or training wheels to experience Matterport. I would send everyone to the We Get Around Network Forum:

There's already two dozen discussions on the Matterport Axis. If you look, you can either search for Matterport Axis within the Forum or search the tag: Matterport Axis If you specifically wanted to see an example that Jeff has done, Dave done, and comparable with other 360 cameras.

the shortcut is: www.WGAN.INFO/axis-examples

Dan Smigrod: Dave and Jeff, thanks so much for being on the show today.

Dave Avilla: Pleasure.

Dan Smigrod: Super-excited to have Dave and Jeff on the show, they're so gracious to take the time to tell their experience using the Matterport Axis: especially since I know that they're both super-busy people. Again, thank you Dave.

Thank you Jeff. We've been visiting with Dave Avilla, he's a real estate photographer and Coldwell Banker Realty Agent in Gilroy, California about an hour and a half south of San Francisco. If you want to follow up with Dave, you want to buy a house with Dave, and Jeff Nitschke, he is the owner of CaptureNW.

The Website is: and Jeff cover's North Idaho and Eastern Washington State. In the We Get Around Network Forum: @lilnitsch and for Dave in the We Ge tAround Network Forum: @Dataventurer

Dan Smigrod: For Dave and Jeff, I'm Dan Smigrod, Founder of the We Get Around Network Forum, and you've been watching WGAN-TV Live at 5.
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Matterport Blog (27 July 2023) Unlock the Future with Matterport Axis: Creating Digital Twins Has Never Been Easier | No Experience Needed - High Level Capture with an Entry Level Price

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Video: the truth about the Matterport Axis Smartphone Rotator | Video courtesy of ColeConnor YouTube Channel |n 17 August 2023
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