WGAN-TV Transcript: Matterport + RSET Emergency Training | Police-Fire-EMT17695
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WGAN-TV Podcast | Matterport + RSET for Real-World Simulations for Police, Fire and EMT Emergency Responders: Including Schools, Museums, Theaters and Public Spaces | Guests: RSET Founder and CEO Bill Gregory, RSET Director of Operations Michael Schmidt and RSET Unity 3D Developer Michael Probst | Tuesday, 18 October 2022 | Episode: 164 | RSET | www.RSETengine.com | WGAN Forum Member Name: @RSET | WGAN-TV Podcast | WGAN Forum Podcast
WGAN-TV Podcast | Matterport + RSET for Real-World Simulations for Police, Fire and EMT Emergency Responders: Including Schools, Museums, Theaters and Public Spaces | Guests: RSET Founder and CEO Bill Gregory, RSET Director of Operations Michael Schmidt and RSET Unity 3D Developer Michael Probst | Tuesday, 18 October 2022 | Episode: 164 | RSET | www.RSETengine.com | WGAN Forum Member Name: @RSET
WGAN Forum Podcast | Matterport + RSET for Real-World Simulations for Police, Fire and EMT Emergency Responders: Including Schools, Museums, Theaters and Public Spaces | Guests: RSET Founder and CEO Bill Gregory, RSET Director of Operations Michael Schmidt and RSET Unity 3D Developer Michael Probst | Tuesday, 18 October 2022 | Episode: 164 | RSET | www.RSETengine.com | WGAN Forum Member Name: @RSET
WGAN-TV eBook | Matterport + RSET for Real-World Simulations for Police, Fire and EMT Emergency Responders: Including Schools, Museums, Theaters and Public Spaces | Guests: RSET Founder and CEO Bill Gregory, RSET Director of Operations Michael Schmidt and RSET Unity 3D Developer Michael Probst | Tuesday, 18 October 2022 | Episode: 164 | RSET | www.RSETengine.com | WGAN Forum Member Name: @RSET
RSET | www.RSETengine.com | www.MatterPakAttack.com
WGAN-TV | Matterport + RSET for Real-World Simulations for Police, Fire and EMT Emergency Responders: Including Schools, Museums, Theaters and Public Spaces | Guests: RSET Founder and CEO Bill Gregory, RSET Director of Operations Michael Schmidt and RSET Unity 3D Developer Michael Probst | Tuesday, 18 October 2022 | Episode: 164 | RSET | www.RSETengine.com | WGAN Forum Member Name: @RSET
Video: RSET Overview | Video courtesy of RSET (Enomalies, LLC) YouTube Channel | 9 October 2022
WGAN-TV Transcript | Matterport + RSET for Real-World Simulations for Police, Fire and EMT Emergency Responders: Including Schools, Museums, Theaters and Public Spaces
[Transcript below ...]
If you are a Matterport Service Provider, this is a "must watch" WGAN-TV show to learn how you can:
► Create more value for existing clients (particularly schools, museums, theaters, public spaces)
► Get more scanning business by understanding the value of Matterport MatterPak + RSET Engine
Plus, if you are thinking about buying a Matterport Pro3 Camera, this show will be helpful too (outdoors, heigh ceiling, large spaces).
Well, this is scary. And, just in time for Halloween.
Take your Matterport scans and turn them into a ZOMBIE HORROR GAME! Careful! You are on your own!
You can now Fight ZOMBIES (www.MatterPakAttack.com) in Any Matterport Digital Twin powered by www.RSETengine.com.
Use your own Matterport MatterPak for the Zombie fighting environment or use one of the examples provided.
And, it's free (to help you visualize the potential) for Matterport + RSET engine from Matterport Partner Enomalies, LLC (RSET).
Fight ZOMBIES today and learn more about Fighting ZOMBIES (www.MatterPakAttack.com) in any Matterport digital twin powered by www.RSETengine.com on Tuesday, 18 October 2022:
► Matterport + RSET for Real-World Simulations for Police, Fire and EMT Emergency Responders: Including Schools, Museums and Theaters
My guests are:
1. RSET Founder and CEO Bill Gregory
2. RSET Director of Operations Michael Schmidt
3. RSET Unity 3D Developer Michael Probst
In addition to a demo of fighting ZOMBIES within Matterport digital twins mesh view, I will ask Bill and Michael about using RSET for:
► CONSUMER – Do more with your Matterport digital twins. Plan layouts, change furniture, play games, and more. Your scan, your rules.
► DEFENSE – Use existing synthetic environments or create new ones to maximize sets and reps for a variety of infantry-related training scenarios.
► PUBIC SAFETY / FIRE / EMS – Train for high risk scenarios without the expense. Suppression, command sim, triage, and more in the critical buildings in your city.
► LAW – Digitally recreate incidents in the next generation of trial graphics. Virtually bring the jury to the scene and walk them around.
RSET Clients Include
► US Department of the Navy | Science & Technology
► US Department of the Navy | Marine Corps
► Lexington, KY Fire Department
► OLF | Oldfather Law Firm
Lexington, KY-based RSET makes software that allows Matterporters to interact with Matterport 3D scans in meaningful yet fun ways.
The Rapid Synthetic Environment Tool (RSET) allows you to walk through your Matterport 3D scans and paint on the walls, add furniture and other objects, record video from virtual cameras, and so much more.
The RSET most recent venture is a partnership with Matterport where you can play a Zombie survival game in your MatterPaks (free at www.MatterPakAttack.com).
Our more serious work is with the Navy and first responders to provide virtual training exercises in digital twins such as active shooter, fire suppression and mass casualty event training.
Questions I should Bill Gregory, Michael Schmidt and Michael Probst on WGAN-TV Live at 5?
P.S. Did you survive? Tell us about your ZOMBIE fighting experience in (www.MatterPakAttack.com).
Transcript (WGAN-TV show above)
Dan Smigrod: -Hi all, I'm Dan Smigrod Founder of the We Get Around Network Forum. Today is Tuesday, October 18, 2022, and you're watching WGAN-TV Live at 5. We have a scary show for you today: Fight ZOMBIES in Any Matterport Digital Twin powered by the RSET Engine, www.RSETengine.com ...
Here to talk to us about the fighting ZOMBIES and what this RSET Engine platform is all about. We have three guests from RSET. First, Bill Gregory, Founder and CEO. Hey Bill.
Bill Gregory: -Hello.
Dan Smigrod: -Mike Schmidt, Director of Operations. Hey Mike.
Michael Schmidt: -Hey Dan.
Dan Smigrod: -Good to see you.
Michael Schmidt: -Thanks.
Dan Smigrod: -Michael Probst Unity3D Developer at RSET. Hey Michael, thanks for being on the show today; for all of you.
Michael Probst: -Hey Dan.
Bill Gregory: -Thank you.
Dan Smigrod: -Bill, before we jump into the topic of today's show – before we start Fighting ZOMBIES – tell us about RSET.
Bill Gregory: -RSET is developed for the military and first responders, primarily, where you can take scans of real-world environments and create an interactive space to do training simulations and after-action review. It's a low barrier of entry.
It is really easy to create the scans and create the training scenario in the environment and it works on any scanning platform out there. We primarily use Matterport for our stuff, but you can use what you need to: it's agnostic.
Dan Smigrod: -Awesome. We're going to come back to RSET. We'll get into some of the business use cases for it, but first, I really do want to fight some ZOMBIES. Michael, how about taking us into the MatterPak Attack?
Michael Probst: -I'm just going to roll our game-play trailer for you.
Dan Smigrod: -Awesome. You had me at MatterPak Attack. ;-) I want to play the game, what's the next step?
Bill Gregory: -You go to www.MatterPakAttack.com. You can sign up for your account and you can download the software. At that point, you should be able to use either one of the downloaded scans that we have or you can use your own Matterport MatterPak scan that you've done through Matterport; or, another 3D environment that you can download.
Dan Smigrod: -Awesome. MatterPak Attack at www.MatterPakAttack.com is a free ZOMBIE horror game platform.
Bill Gregory: -Yes.
Dan Smigrod: -It's free to play, it's free to download the software, and it's free to use the Matterport MatterPak examples that you have or...?
Bill Gregory: -Or, if you have another platform that you've used to scan it with, if you've used a Leica BLK360 scanner or you've done a digital environment that you've created yourself, you could actually imported into it, as long as it is an OBJ type file, you could use that as a game map.
Dan Smigrod: -Awesome. Matterport enables the download of the MatterPak which includes an .OBJ file, so any other platform that generates that .OBJ is the synthetic or the environment that you use for the game play.
Bill Gregory: -Correct. You can use your iPhone if you have a new iPhone 12 work greater or an iPad Pro or an iPhone 12 Pro or greater and use a LiDAR scanning app and scan your own room and do it that way and import into the game. We've done a lot of mapping where we use a BLK2G0 – the walk around one – and then we'll use a platform like HxDR to convert that to an OBJ file and bring it into the game.
Dan Smigrod: -For the vast majority of our audience that's uses Matterport to create an environment, to generate a MatterPak, so it's free either with the example MatterPaks that RSET provides or I can have my own environment by downloading the MatterPak from Matterport for my digital twins and now I love hearing that I can use my iPhone to actually fight ZOMBIES in my living room.
Bill Gregory: -Correct. We're also working on some curated game maps that other people have sent us that are really unique locations that we can work into the game somehow.
Dan Smigrod: -Awesome. I think what I'm hearing is we're not actually going to play the game today, we're going to let our viewers go to www.MatterPakAttack.com and experience it firsthand for them, is that right?
Bill Gregory: -Yes. Unless we have time in a bit for somebody to fire up the game and let you try it but, first I guess we'll just talk about the other aspects of RSET.
Dan Smigrod: -I think really the exciting thing about the RSET Engine is – I couldn't imagine, Bill, when you all started the company, you really didn't start out going, "hey, we want to create a free ZOMBIE horror game and make it available free for the entire planet."
I imagine that the RSET Engine had actually commercial uses and that's what we should really talk about, but you spun off a free game just in time for Halloween that people could go play.
Bill Gregory: -That's pretty much the path. We all started with Enomalies, you see some of our shirts here [with logos]. Enomalies is the company that started working for the Office of Naval Research, developing a rapid scanning platform for military training. When we got into this, we were actually building our own scanning hardware and then it was about 2014, we started noticing a lot of scanners coming online.
And started working with Matterport at that time and decided it would be a better path instead of trying to compete with all the hardware manufacturers to just design a platform that could use the output from any one of these scanners.
When we really started using Matterport, it became our platform of choice to start doing this. We've been working for the military doing this for awhile now, creating, again, training scenarios or after-action reviews, because it's a really low barrier of entry because you don't have to have a lot of training; you don't need to train a 3D modeler to create an environment.
You just do a scan and then just pull it straight into RSET.
Dan Smigrod: -What was the problem or problems that the military had, that Enomalies – and now RSET – can actually solve?
Bill Gregory: -The genesis of this, they put out a call in the SBIR world, which the Small Business Innovation Research Grant and said we keep clearing the building, and then coming back and having to re-clear that building and there's life-saving information that can be sent to the second team that has to go in that building again and that you might not even have the same people and the unit that had gone to the building before.
Their idea was it would be a great way to rapidly scan this environment and then have that information for a new unit coming in to train before going in and look for pinch points, sniper positions, things that might be dangerous just someone doing a building clear.
Dan Smigrod: -What applications is that now grown to? Categories of who also has that need or the same problems?
Bill Gregory: -Well, so indirectly it fits with a lot of first responder work. As we started work in the military, we started seeing applications within fire and police, your EMTs; they all had these situations of going into buildings and maybe being familiar with the environment; preview is lifesaving in certain situations.
We're working with different departments to do pre-scanning of buildings to develop training scenarios. We've been working with arson to do post event scans where they can come in and see what's happened and do a walk-through.
We will work with theater. Theaters do scans ahead of time, it can actually lay out a scene with elements and walk through that scene before actually building the show. And all of this work should be VR as well. You can actually use RSET in VR for training.
Dan Smigrod: -Bill, Michael, Mike, I actually have a lot of follow-up questions on that topic, but I think it would actually be helpful to look at some examples of first responders: Fire. EMT. Police. Perhaps, Michael, can you share your screen and show us some environments, some examples?
Michael Probst: -Here I'll start sharing my screen again. It's a quick cut of all of those things you just asked for.
Dan Smigrod: -Awesome.
Michael Probst: -Yeah.
Bill Gregory: So we don't have any audio with this one?
Michael Probst: No. This doesn't have any background audio, but we can talk through it.
Bill Gregory: Yeah. This is EMT training. You can actually put your own victims in with various injuries. When we started working with first responders, the standard of training is actually called, Teddy Bear Triage and Treatment, where they will give a teddy bear a tag and a bandage on it and throw it into a building and say, "I'm a 35-year-old male with a gun shot wound to the chest.
What would you do to me?" That's how they will actually send the EMTs into a building, to do training. What we're doing is scanning the environment and putting actual victims in with various injuries. This is how they triage.
They come in and tag people: yellow, green, red or black. They can go into buildings. That's actually a hotel here in town where we scanned. This is various other buildings and you can actually do the triage. If the audio was working on this, the victims speak to you. We have sound spheres you can add on any scene where you can have them speaking or talking about their injury or various things.
Bill Gregory: That's on the EMT's side of it. I don't know what all you have in here.
Michael Probst: This is just showing the same sort of training, but not on a desktop with mouse and keyboard or a game controller. This is in VR where you can actually physically go in and treat your patients. This one in particular had an injury to her legs. In VR we're acting out wrapping some gauze around her leg. Then it will cut into fire training.
Bill Gregory: In our fire tools here we can set a fire and it will spread. We have fire tuning tools, which work with the surfaces in the Matterport MatterPak. You can scan and say, "when it burns, this will spread faster, this wall will spread faster than the floor. Have this color smoke with it. It'll give off this color smoke. The smoke builds over time as you're in this space." You can set up a training scenario and set the room on fire.
Michael Probst: Then this is what it looks like.
Bill Gregory: Then you can actually fight it in VR on your desktop or with a game controller. Now this is actually a training that was... This has been for the military where we came into some of their training sites and scan and set up targets. They come in quickly and attack the targets more or less. Then we can actually put a first-person combatant against you that is shooting back at you in these scenes.
Michael Probst: Yeah, there are no AI combatants in this video.
Bill Gregory: But we can add them.
Michael Probst: But we can do that. Yeah. That's the end of it.
Dan Smigrod: Okay. Was there a live demo that you wanted to walk us through or could walk us through.
Bill Gregory: You do have a couple of other videos Michael, that you wanted to play?
Dan Smigrod: Yeah. Do you have some more video that you're going to play? Then maybe we can take a look at some actual engagement.
Michael Probst: I think this might be a good time to just show off RSET Explorer if you want to get into that.
Bill Gregory: Sure.
Michael Probst: Here I'll start sharing my screen.
Bill Gregory: Again, this works with any MatterPak that you download. Okay, so this is a video Mike?
Michael Probst: No, this is live.
Bill Gregory: You are live on this. Okay.
Dan Smigrod: Talk to me about being live. How are you walking through this space? Are you using a game controller? Keyboard? A mouse? Something else?
Michael Probst: Yes. So, right now, I've got a PlayStation controller plugged into my desktop here. I can walk through this home, which is the home from the Silence of the Lambs movie, Buffalo Bill's house.
Dan Smigrod: Yeah, please don't show this, it's going to be too scary for me. I may not get any sleep.
Michael Probst: The ZOMBIES weren't scary enough?
Dan Smigrod: The ZOMBIES were pretty scary.
Michael Probst: Yeah. Bill, do you want to narrate or should I?
Bill Gregory: I'm sorry, It's all again you have full navigation and then you have the opacity too; you can turn down the opacity and look through walls; so he can see what's underneath floorboards and see what's in other rooms. Which has been a useful tool for training.
Dan Smigrod: For training, who would find being able to look through the floorboard helpful?
Bill Gregory: Well, a direct application we have for the fire department is when they come in and they're doing a training scenario in a building, and they can say, "okay, now look above you. There's a three ton air conditioning unit above you that you wouldn't know walking through this building.
How would you handle this now that you know, this is a partial collapse, what would you do?" It lets them see through what's on the other side. There's also – both Mike and I've used this with contractors in our own homes to say, "if you look through here, below, that's what you'll be hitting if you drill through here at this point."
We can also, and I think we have a video which we'll show later. We can layer these scans and several layers during construction. Then you can turn down the opacity, looking at the drywall and see where the studs, piping and wiring are after you've built the house.
Dan Smigrod: Okay. Michael, you're taking us through a space. Do you have one where you actually have fire or smoke or adversaries or obstacles, etc, that we can engage with?
Bill Gregory: Before we jump to that, Dan can he show you a couple of the other tools here?
Dan Smigrod: Oh sure. That'd be great.
Bill Gregory: We can drop objects. Immediate drop tables – these are the quick drop objects. You can customize that and set them up into space.
We've got painting tools. You can mark up the space. You can come in and say, we're going to take out here, we're going to – or you can change the size. You can change the color of what you are marking, measurement tools.
You can measure things in the room. I click there and there and get the space – so you measure it. Then we have drone flight tools. You can release a drone in this space and fly this space, just like you were flying it with the drone – around and in the space.
Then the other tools that are a little harder to show with the time constraints are six and seven. Did you put a tag marker in this space? You can put a tag markers where you can say what items are. Well, we can link these tags to PDFs or videos or anything you want to play. Say you are doing a maintenance thing.
Bill Gregory: By the way, he added the well. (The well is not in the movie.) Michael added this after the fact. Then seven are cameras. We can place anywhere in the scene and you can watch someone. When you're doing this in network, you can watch someone else go through, record their path through a building. That's a training tool.
Dan Smigrod: Okay, great. Let's come out of this. - Did you want to share the screen so that we can see the controls, or is that too much for today in terms of actually seeing the palate that you're using to interact with the space?
Bill Gregory: - Like a scenario: how you want to show how to put something into space.
Dan Smigrod: - Yeah, I'm just curious to see, I'm geeky, but I'm not a coder. Is this design to be – What level of person to use the RSET Engine platform to actually create an environment? I would imagine that you have two services: 1) will teach you and you can do it yourself and 2) the others will do it for you.
Bill Gregory: - But the do-it-yourself is where we really designed this for the military to have someone in the field with no training doing this. It's really simple to add your own objects. If you can, Mike, fire up something to show him.
Michael Schmidt: - Yeah, Dan, Bill, I should have my screen shared now. If not, let me.
Dan Smigrod: - Try to share.
Michael Schmidt: - Not, yet. Now it is starting.
Dan Smigrod: - Yeah, I think the ZOMBIES were taking over at that point. ;-)
Michael Schmidt: - Yeah, like Bill said, and, Dan, a good question you asked early on was, "what problems was RSET solving for the military?" Bill hit it on the head there with 1) easy capture and then 2) easy augmentation.
A lot of times, augmenting scans like this requires in-depth knowledge and experience and game engine architecture and 3D modeling. We wanted to get away from all that and give people a pallet of useful tools that would let them mock things up to quickly get into the action, so to speak. What you see on the screen now, which I'm interacting with a mouse and a keyboard, is our designer page or designer panel built-in to RSET. If you are a user of RSET and you've got your scan, load it in, and all these tools are available to you as well.
There's quite an extensive subset here available for you. I'll just showcase a few of the most popular ones. Important to all different training scenarios would be the ability to augment lighting.
We've got a couple of custom lights down here. These can be moved around and interacted with. In the theater realm of things, this is fantastic for mocking up, lighting on a stage to see how your sets would be fully lit up. Bill mentioned sounds and sound spheres earlier. Over here I've got an alarm sound on the wall.
We can't hear it because we're outside of that sphere. But I'll drop in the scan here in just a moment, and let you guys hear that. For training, it's good to be able to put your trainees in the same spot in a scan over and over again instead of choosing a spawn location. We've got methods for constraining people to a certain spawn location.
You can see a ZOMBIE appear. We fully support animated assets that you can import; this as one we found online. We do offer libraries and I'll open up a couple of here – like there's some objects here and a wide catalog of doorways, and several other objects that we ship with RSET. But that is by no means the limit to what you are able to –
Dan Smigrod: - Mike, excuse me, what's the file format for those objects?
Michael Schmidt: - Right now we support OBJs and FBXs. This ZOMBIE you see dancing here, that would be an animated FBX file.
Then the OBJ is a good example would be this doorway, which was not here when we did this scan. I can take this doorway and completely get rid of it. But being able to go back through, especially for the military, but honestly for anybody. Mockup or plan are extremely valuable.
Michael Schmidt: See object manipulation tools, environmental tools. We talked about the fire editor, sound lights, avatars, whether static or otherwise, to walk around the scan, this would be similar to the ZOMBIES.
Dan Smigrod: - Let's stay on that for a moment, if you would.
Dan Smigrod: If I think of an avatar, if we're thinking in terms of Fire. EMT. Police. Then we're really talking about casualties, adversaries, obstacles.
Michael Schmidt: - Correct. That's exactly right. We tried to make the avatar an all-inclusive thing depending on your use case. For the military, that may be a training target like this. Whether static and non-intelligent or an artificial intelligence target that stays in a spot, in a room until it catches the eyesight of the player.
Then of course the patient too. I could spawn a patient. You guys saw patients earlier. I'm pretty sure it will sit there and scream in pain and agony depending on what wound it has.
So, I don't want to subject you guys to that needlessly, but yes, the nice thing about this tool is; you don't have to go through and mockup – I need to find an avatar, I need to write the text blurb for their injury. You're welcome to do that, but this is one button click. We click one button and in pops a patient with a full injury workup.
Dan Smigrod: - Mike can you make that your last demo so that we get to see maybe the spawn of something?
Michael Schmidt: - Sure.
Dan Smigrod: - Then, cancel out of it so that we're not in –
Michael Schmidt: - Not in perpetual torture. Actually yeah. That's pretty mild actually, as far as the sound is concerned.
Dan Smigrod: - Yeah. That there might be training for Fire. EMT. Police. You can train in an environment. What would you call that? Is that a simulation?
Michael Schmidt: - Yeah, this would be – the environment is synthetic and so is the simulation. But you're able to simulate high-risk situations like this in buildings that are important to you. This is a space in Fort Knox.
Michael Schmidt: If there's a building in your jurisdiction that is more sensitive, whether that's a school or a conference center or business park or whatnot, you'd like to put your firefighters or your Emergency Medical Technicians (EMTs) through a training scenario that you mock-up in those environments. That's exactly what RSET was built for.
Dan Smigrod: - Awesome. Hold it there just for a second. I imagine there's some type of video recording, they can take place at this point?
Michael Schmidt: - Exactly, and the tool that Michael Probst showed at the very end there. You can set up cameras beforehand in RSET Designer and then record your users and their interactions and the decisions they make for later review.
Dan Smigrod: - Is the camera with the point of view that we're seeing now? Is it that you can have cameras in other places that you actually place a camera where you want to be recording video from?
Michael Schmidt: - All of the above. It records from the player's perspective and from any additional cameras that you also record. It puts that in a video file on your hard drive and you can take that and use it however you'd like.
Dan Smigrod: - That may be used for future training, it may be used for critiquing, it may be used for training and critiquing, and it saves that experience, "okay, this student has successfully – the firefighter, the EMT, the police officer has gone through the training." It's the documentation of their training experience.
Michael Schmidt: - Exactly. It's also a use case if, as the instructor, we're working through your own scenario and you're recording yourself, then you can showcase either before or after your students have gone through it. "Hey, this is what success looks like. This is how you should do it," and you can actually talk through your decisions like that.
Dan Smigrod: - Unless you have something else to demo let's stop on the share screen unless there was something else. Awesome. I think that that's really good context for the follow-up questions, and I think just maybe to build on what Bill, you and Michael, we're saying. In the case of the military, that was the original potential client for you. Sounds like you worked under an RFP, a military –
Bill Gregory: - We've worked through Phase 1, Phase 2 SBIRs, and then we've moved onto a contract with them.
Dan Smigrod: - I just want to be clear on this. The problems that you were able to help the military solve, 1) first was the rapid capture of an environment.
That the problem before there was something like Matterport, that there would be a very expensive Unity developer, designers, team of people taking hours and days, or weeks or even months to create an environment that now can be captured at the speed of Matterport, and likely captured today and you're ready to start building your environment tomorrow. The first super-big problem was building out the environment quickly.
Bill Gregory: - Correct.
Dan Smigrod: - 2) The second was to have the build-out of a real environment. To move that from a high skill. They could be done by photographers who can use a Matterport camera.
Bill Gregory: - Yeah, that's correct. Matterport camera works with it. We've also worked exteriors now too with drone flights and photogrammetry engines. It's really scanner agnostic. Whatever you can gather the data with, we can use.
Dan Smigrod: - There's two things that are in that Matterport scanning process is 1) fast, but also it 2) democratized the capture of a space. Even today, as you described, using the latest generation of iPhone with LiDAR, that you can capture a space.
Dan Smigrod: I don't quite know how you get to the Object File (OBJ), but you can get to the Object File in order to have the environment.
Bill Gregory: That is correct. On the iPhone, there are several apps out there to do it. There are some free apps to do it. When they finish, you can drop it on a Google Drive and then drop it in RSET. It goes straight from the iPhone to that.
Dan Smigrod: Awesome. There's two things there. 1) Capture the environment super-fast, 2) democratize the ability to capture the environment.
I want to say the 3) third thing is probably cost that you went from replicating a space, taking hours, days, weeks, potentially months, and the associated dollars to now, boom, it's the cost of a Matterport Scan plus the RSET Engine platform and the tools.
Bill Gregory: Exactly. It's where it's going even for the fire departments using it. Go ahead. Please, Dan.
Dan Smigrod: Let me just add one thing and then come back to you. I think maybe the 4) fourth thing is then to say, "how do you take everything that we've discussed and enable anyone – without a lot of training – to be able to use a visual dashboard to trick-out the environment.
I think in your case, your first use case is talking about the military. Soldiers perhaps at a Forward Operating Base (FOB) could actually build out a scenario and do training exercises before actually entering into combat.
Bill Gregory: Yeah. Correct. The whole purpose was to design something that if they could play Call of Duty, they could use it.
Dan Smigrod: That is awesome. Military first use case – Before we go on to the other use cases, I just wanted to just double-check in terms of the things that you can trick-out an environment with. I think what I've heard so far is you can add smoke, fire, change lighting, you can add avatars – which might be either casualties, adversaries, it might be obstacles – I heard sound.
We didn't talk about weather, but I think that was one of the other things to apply. What does that mean, weather, in terms of an environment?
Bill Gregory: We can add smoke or fog in an environment and make it harder to see. Then change the lighting, so it's dark when you go into a building versus not. We've done some photogrammetry work underwater.
We can submerge and have a diver avatar swim to something, as well.
Dan Smigrod: That's crazy! Or I should say probably crazy-exciting! In terms of some of these first responder use cases, when you show RSET to Fire departments, EMT, Police, what's their reaction to seeing Matterport plus RSET?
Bill Gregory: They're very excited about it. The first responders, again, going from Teddy Bear Triage and Treatment to actually scanning a space that they might actually have to address – at some point – is very exciting to them as opposed to a generic space.
They can go to schools, libraries, government buildings and say, "okay, so if we had a shooting incident here at the building, what can we do? How would we handle it? Where would we position people? What would be the response we would do in this space?"
That's really great training tools for them. But then the after-action review, we had a large nightclub fire happened here a couple of years ago, and the owner happened to be a hoarder and they made entrance to the basement.
They said it was a nightmare fire to fight because stuff was just everywhere to get in it. But a firefighter got turned around and lost. Fortunately, he made it out before he ran out of air. We did a Matterport scan after the event.
Then they actually recreated the scene for the team doing an after-action review. He was able to say, "yes, that's exactly where I was standing and I see how I've got lost in this environment. A matter of fact, I got down on my knees and there's that red bucket and I put my hand on trying to figure out where I was." It was a great learning experience for the whole team. They really want to move that forward.
Dan Smigrod: I don't want to oversimplify this, but it sounds like if the firefighters had access to a library of every space.
They could easily and quickly review where they're about to go fight a fire in order to prevent perhaps the loss of life because a firefighter gets lost, or to make sure that they're checking all the spaces that they want to or they know all the issues.
I think you started to talk a little bit about, there's a five ton air conditioning unit above here. There's no support under this floor here to know structurally what that space is all about.
Bill Gregory: Yes, that's exactly – We have some discussions about, "can we do all the pre-scanning in these buildings?" "Can we start scanning government buildings and making models to do just that; to hopefully save lives in an actual event that you hope never happens."
Dan Smigrod: Gosh, I have so many questions for you. Where do I begin? I'm a Matterport Service Provider.
I'm watching this WGAN-TV show today. I go, "Well, this is crazy.
Now, I literally have a library of hundreds, if not thousands, of Matterport tours. I am thinking in two directions. 1) One, do I go back to clients and introduce them to Matterport plus RSET in order to say, 'hey, there's a whole another use case for your hotel, your nightclub, your theater, your school, your restaurant''' in order to have these tools available for training exercises and perhaps even volunteer to the local fire department to say, "hey, would you like to have my Matterport + RSET space and do training exercises in it?"
Bill Gregory: Yes, that's exactly what we would love to see people doing. We really want to have Matterport Service Providers have another tool that they can take to their clients and say, "look what else you can do with it."
I think we've actually dealt with a few Matterport Service Providers that didn't even understand what the Matterport MatterPak was or that they can download it from the Matterport site. When we brought it up to them – That actually happened on the Silence of the Lamb house scan.
The person was like, "what is the Matterport MatterPak? We don't understand." Because they did it for a scan to sell the home. Then we explained what it was and they said, "wow, I had no idea we could go to this interactive level."
Dan Smigrod: I bought my Matterport Pro Camera in July of 2014. At that time, there was no charge for the Matterport MatterPak and I was giving it to my real estate agent clients without even knowing it was.
They didn't know what it was, but it was something free. I was like, I think it took me a while to actually understand that this Matterport MatterPak maybe has more value than the actual scan that's used for marketing purposes.
Early on, I went to a digital game design company and I said, "hey, here's this Matterport MatterPak thing. Would this help you build out in a real-world space faster?" They said, "no, it's really a mess and it's not really helpful for us to build out the environment faster."
But looking at what RSET is doing, it looks like you really don't care that the environment looks like – Clearly, you can say you wouldn't use a Matterport MatterPak for the purpose of marketing a space. It looks like a fire has occurred inside the space.
But I would imagine the military, first responders, fire, EMT, police: they could care less about the fact that it looks rough and ragged. It achieves the objective of quickly scanning a space, being able to easily build it out and not having to have rocket scientists on staff to create the training exercises.
Bill Gregory: Exactly. We're not really concerned about the photo-realism of the environment nor are our clients. Nor does it matter for a ZOMBIE game that it's a photo-realistic of an environment. What you really want is accuracy of the layout and of the scale, so you can do real training in the space.
Dan Smigrod: 2) The second thing I think a Matterport Service Provider that's watching this WGAN-TV show today might say, "well, Matterport + RSET sounds like it might create opportunities for me to get new business." Is that part of your view here? Is that a Matterport – real estate photographer that does Matterport – that this might be a way to generate business.
Then, how do you go get that business? Do you first approach the fire department? The EMTs? The police department? Or, do you actually go out and talk to churches and synagogues, and schools, and public spaces that we all don't like to think about – bad things happen – but to talk about, "hey, this could enable the pre-planning by emergency responders."
Bill Gregory: I think it's for the second reason that you just go and go talk to the people and say, "we have a tool now that can do this and we can offer this to you as a tool." Then, we're developing – we haven't fully deployed yet; an ecosystem for sharing these environments, as well.
Where you can say, "I'm in Florida and I've scanned this synagogue and here's a situation that we've actually built a training scenario in it. We'd like to share this environment with someone in Oklahoma to actually try this environment and do a training scenario and see what they dealt with."
But I do think you just go and approach them and say, "we think this is a way of doing some training, some awareness." Quite a few years ago, my wife where she worked, they did a police training in a scenario of a first-person shooter.
The police, all they had at the time was a USB drive that was kept at the building in a lockbox outside that they could pull out that had a PDF of the floor plans, if there was an emergency and that's great, but we're levels better than that. If there was an emergency, you come in and you can freely walk through the space.
Dan Smigrod: And have the floor plans. The environments, I believe, that you've been shown were shot with the Matterport Pro2 Camera. Matterport has recently come out with the Matterport Pro3 Camera. RSET has bought a Matterport Pro3 Camera. … has bought a Matterport Pro3 Camera. Is it too soon to ask you about the difference between a Pro2 and a Pro3 for creating environments for RSET plus Matterport?
Bill Gregory: Having just worked with our Pro3 a little bit I'm happy to say that it does work. We haven't done a whole lot of scans with it. Our excitement about the Pro3 is the ability to do exteriors with it and still be within the Matterport ecosystem.
That just makes life easier for us to be able to go interior to exterior and make a model. I know you can get an E57 File from a Pro3. For our specific purposes, it doesn't make a difference that E57: we just need the OBJ that comes out of it. We're excited about our Matterport Pro3 Camera. We just need to do more work with it: start doing Matterport scans.
Dan Smigrod: Does the Matterport Pro3 Camera make the textures – If that's the right word – does it smooth it out and it feels a little bit more like the actual space?
Bill Gregory: We haven't found – I know Michael you did a little – you have a little comparison video. I don't know if you have it available. If you don't, that's fine.
Michael Probst: I do. Not to spoil it, but as far as I can tell, the textures don't necessarily look much different from the Matterport Pro2 Camera to the Matterport Pro3 Camera for the OBJs.
Dan Smigrod: Yeah. If you have the video and you can play side-by-side that would be great. I think really what I heard you say, Bill, is – "Ah! Now you can do these environments outside" which was really not something that was doable or practical with a Matterport Pro2 Camera. Now you can do outside.
Plus, I can imagine if you have environments that have super-high ceilings, you can now capture the scan data so that it will actually show up in the OBJ for high ceilings .
Bill Gregory: Exactly. Because we've done school gymnasiums and sometimes that's hard to capture with the Pro2. This will be a whole lot better with the Pro3.
Dan Smigrod: Or impossible to capture that after two levels up or something. But now you have office atriums, gymnasiums, stadiums, outdoor spaces. If you're thinking about buying a Matterport Pro2 Camera or Matterport Pro3 Camera and you're also thinking about Matterport plus RSET– the RSET Engine, then it's probably a no brainer to say, "Oh! Go for the Matterport Pro3 Camera! You'll just be way happier."
Bill Gregory: I agree. We think, though, in our specific application, Pro2 and Pro3 working together will really work well for us. Primarily on the interiors – very often – especially when working in a burned out building or something like that, we don't have lighting.
We have a light mount that – we've printed – that goes on our Matterport Pro2 Camera. I don't know, I'm not ready to put that on a Pro3 yet without some more experimentation.
Dan Smigrod: RSET is in the We Get Around Network Forum. At the point that you want to talk about Pro2 plus lighting and you want to share your lighting solution, please do that in the We Get Around Network Forum (www.WGANForum.com).
If you come up with the solution for Matterport Pro3 Camera plus lighting, that would be awesome – in the We Get Around Network Forum – @RSET Michael, you've got some video you want to show us? Maybe compare the Matterport Pro2 versus the Pro3 Camera?
Michael Probst: Yeah, one second.
Michael Probst: This is some footage from within RSET, looking through the OBJ of Bill's living room scanned with the Matterport Pro3. (I want to mute this.)
Michael Probst: - It's simple, and this is it spinning around, but here's the comparison is the more interesting part. Can you see my mouse cursor?
Dan Smigrod: - Yeah.
Michael Schmidt: - Yeah.
Michael Probst: - Checkout on the Matterport Pro2 scan. I guess I didn't get into this. I don't think the textures are necessarily any different in quality between the Pro2 and the Pro3, but you can see in this comparison here that some of the edges of smooth objects are much more refined, so check out this wardrobe on the Pro2 scan.
See the top of it's choppy and the edges are all choppy, and look how smooth it is on this Pro3 scan.
Dan Smigrod: - Forgive me, but that's probably enough in the Pro2 versus the Pro3.
I think for the purpose of doing Matterport + RSET, it doesn't matter whether you're using a Matterport Pro2 or you're using a Pro3, but if you're right at the point deciding which Matterport camera to get, get the Pro3 1) primarily for outside, 2) primarily for height, 3) primarily for large spaces, and we've done two WGAN-TV Live at 5 shows – first impressions on the Pro3 – and I think those photographers all said things like, "and there's fewer or no scanning errors where you have to rescan with a Pro2 and it's faster. Did you find it was faster when you were just taking the Pro3 for a spin?
Bill Gregory: - I did find it's faster. The rotation's faster, of course you have to walk a little quicker to stay behind it, out of the field of view because it rotates faster.
Which gets interesting in some of our environments because you can't navigate very well or hide, so very often you'll find us hiding under the tripod during these situations. But the Matterport Pro3 Camera is quicker, and it's quicker in that again, the radius is larger. You can do larger spaces faster with the Pro3.
Dan Smigrod: - Quickly, yeah. We talked about first responders – Fire. EMTs. Police. Was there anything else to add about first responders that we didn't cover?
Bill Gregory: - Mike and Michael, do you have anything that we haven't hit on exactly with first responders?
Dan Smigrod: - On first responders. No, okay. Other use cases. You mentioned fire forensics, fire safety training after-the-fact. Litigation? You have a story to tell about using Matterport plus RSET in litigation?
Bill Gregory: - Yeah, we do. Michael, do you have a video on that?
Michael Probst: - Give me one second, I'm locating it.
Bill Gregory: - Okay. We've used them in court cases. We've used RSET to present evidence in a court case. They use it in presentations, the attorneys do, so it comes into letting people interact and see the event from the perspective of the people involved in the event.
Dan Smigrod: - What is different about either going on location and seeing that, or just showing a static Matterport space? What is the value-add that RSET is adding to the environment for digital litigation?
Bill Gregory: - Well, in a lot of environments, it's a little frustrating when you do the scan, that the space is not contiguous. You have to hop from scan location to scan location.
In RSET, it becomes more contiguous, the space, so you could step between where the scan parts were, and you can actually squat down to look under something that might not have been captured, at the time, and you can do it like you physically do it. You squat, with the VR headset on, squat down and look at it.
Also you can enhance it because after the event very often whatever happens is picked up, cleaned up, and gone. But you can go back to that space and actually recreate what happened at that scene at that time, and that's what we've been doing with the court cases.
Dan Smigrod: - Do you find that in litigation that clients that are using Matterport plus RSET are winning? Did the attorney say, "Oh! Matterport plus RSET clearly helped us convince the judge or convince the jury, and it resulted in lots of money?"
Bill Gregory: - Yes. Actually, we've had right now over $100 million in settlements that we've been a part of; directly using RSET, and it's been because they were able to present: either they settled once they saw the presentation or went to court and they used it. The lawyers really thought it was a powerful tool to show what happened. Michael, did you find it? Or if you don't, we don't have to. Don't stress yourself out.
Michael Probst: - No, I found it. This is actually an industrial accident that we helped recreate, and we did this through an E57 file actually to do it.
Dan Smigrod: - Could you pause just for a second. What I want to say to our audience, because again, most of our audience, Matterport Service Providers, Matterporters, Matterport Pros, and just like you said, well, a lot of us at some point had no idea what a Matterport MatterPak was, but you can order that through "My Matterport" once you're signed into Matterport Cloud account. In a similar fashion, you can order a Matterport E57 File.
Do you want to describe what the difference is between an E57 and a MatterPak?
Bill Gregory: - An E57 is a point cloud data from the laser scanning where the original Pro2 is more of a structured light scan with the IR spots. The spinning laser actually point at a distance that our textured from the image.
Dan Smigrod: - For a layman, like me, you might be able to say the E67 File; its accuracy or it provides a better picture of the environment.
Bill Gregory: - Yeah, a little more accurate. It is more accurate; in larger spaces.
Dan Smigrod: - More accurate in larger spaces, and if you're using the Matterport Pro3 Camera, it can see much further than the Matterport Pro2 Camera, and you can actually order – because again, I think our photographers that are using Matterport, it may never occurred – when you're in Matterport Workshop, there's a little button that says Add Ons.
And when you go to Add Ons, and you might be used to ordering, maybe floor plans, or maybe now MatterPaks, you can also order an E57 File from Matterport. I interrupted you, forgive me.
Bill Gregory: - No, that's exactly it. This one was scanned with a station that did a LiDAR scan and did E57 files, so Michael, if you let it play.
The truck was a Matterport scan and so we scanned the truck with Matterport and then imported it into the scene, and then we recreated the accident.
The courtroom was actually able to see what happened in real scale, and then they can move into distant places around. Now that truck's not the Matterport scan, the other truck was the Matterport scan. That was an asset download, but you can download assets and put it in and this is on RSET, if you'll just let it play, Michael.
Bill Gregory: Yes, it was a very bad accident. But this is also VR, so you can actually stand in the position of the vehicle, which is a recreation. So that's where the power comes into that.
Dan Smigrod: - Cool, are there other sweet spots for the RSET Engine?
Bill Gregory: - Other places where it's really valuable is with the theaters that we've used RSET. Recently, Mike and I were at an event where we scanned the room before going into it and laid out all the tables for them....
We literally showed up the night before and helped them space all their tables in the room because we could just drop them in and help them plan their whole layout ahead of time. If you scanned the venue, you can RSET and layout, a wedding or a conference or something like that you might need to.
Dan Smigrod: - Space planners.
Bill Gregory: - Exactly space planners. It's super-easy to do in RSET.
Dan Smigrod: - Other use cases – that are not edge cases – but sweet spots? I immediately get it, first responders: Fire. EMTs. Police. Litigation. Military applications. Other sweet spots for RSET?
Bill Gregory: - Michael, can you help me if there's anything that I'm skipping over here? We have done museums, we done definitely been working with museums now.
Dan Smigrod: - What's the application? Because a lot of WGAN Members, our community, are scanning museums, events, spaces, art galleries.
Bill Gregory: - Michael, do you have the Vasa Museum video available?
Michael Probst: - Yeah, one second. Just got to navigate here.
Bill Gregory: - The Vasa is a museum in Stockholm. That you may be aware of it.
Dan Smigrod: - I've been there!
Bill Gregory: - The Vasa is a ship that sank and they've raised it. We were not allowed on the ship. You're not allowed to actually be on the ship. We worked with the Vasa team to actually get the interiors of it. Then you can now walk inside the ship, inside RSET.
Dan Smigrod: - That's awesome because all we could do – the museum is actually – the Vasa Museum was built around the ship.
The Vasa Museum was solely because the ship was so amazing! I just relate the story because I always found it fascinating. Whoever designed the ship forgot to take into account the weight of the cannons. On its first voyage, it sank immediately.
Bill Gregory: - We have the interiors of the Vasa Museum here. We're working with them to get all of them. This is a partial view of the interiors of the Vasa Museum. Now you can walk inside, so that's inside the Vasa right now.
We're putting objects in and helping them develop and exhibit where they can let people walk in the interiors: either VR or in a kiosk. This is – Michael was doing this inside the RSET Scenario Designer. He built a whole little – didn't take him long because these tools are easy to use. He built a little training environment scenario for someone that wants to just explore the inside of the Vasa ship.
Dan Smigrod: - That is awesome. Was there anything else to show us on the Vasa?
Bill Gregory: ... He can switch it to Swedish too. You can toggle.
Dan Smigrod: - That is awesome! A tusen takk [Thank you very much! ]
Bill Gregory: - The museum work – We work with a couple of other museums right now. Mike has a scan tomorrow with another museum that we're going to help build a kiosk for. Again, so if your other Matterport Service Providers have done scans, we can talk to them about helping them create a kiosk for someone they've done a museum with.
Dan Smigrod: - Awesome. Just to be clear for our audience, mostly scanning with Matterport Pro2 Cameras and now Matterport Pro3 Cameras. Pro2/Pro3 Cameras are an easy "go-to" for all of us. But just for clarity, you can use any scanning technology as long as it outputs either an .OBJ File or –
Bill Gregory: .FBX for the animated parts of it or you can still use an E57 File. There's ways to get through to that, but that takes a little more massaging of the data to get to where you want to be.
Dan Smigrod: - Ultimately you're going to end up in a .OBJ File for the environment. But for any of our viewers who are scanning with any technology and they're ending up with whatever file type, as long as that file type can be converted to an .OBJ – easy-peasy then to do RSET.
Bill Gregory: - Completely.
Dan Smigrod: - Awesome. I saw something on your website. I just wanted to read it and maybe just ask for your comments before we finish up here. "RSET is a software application that turns 3D scans of real-world environments into highly immersive physics-based reality simulations where high-risk events can be safely replicated, customized and shared to save lives, reduce injuries in the line of duty."
I just thought that was an amazing statement that what RSET is able to do with Matterport – and in the broader scanning world – is just amazing. You just must be so excited! Matterport must be incredibly excited for what you are doing.
Bill Gregory: - We really want to increase the adoption of the MatterPak as a tool, that would really help and let people know what you can do with it as a tool. The genesis of this was really helping the military save lives; helping firefighters save lives. That's the feedback we really liked getting is, "this is a tool that will make a difference."
Dan Smigrod: - Awesome. Bill, Michael. Mike, thanks for being on the show today.
Bill Gregory: - Thank you so much for having us.
Michael Probst: - Thanks for having us.
Michael Schmidt: - Thanks, Dan.
Dan Smigrod: - We've been visiting with RSET Founder and CEO Bill Gregory; Mike Schmidt, the Director of Operations for RSET; and Michael Probst Unity 3D Developer at RSET. Check out the website, www.RSETengine.com ...
Dan Smigrod: To play the ZOMBIE horror game. Go to: www.MatterPakAttack.com
Dan Smigrod: www.MatterPakAttack.com For Bill, Michael and Mike in the greater Lexington, Kentucky area. I'm Dan Smigrod, Founder of the We Get Around Network Forum in Atlanta. You've been watching WGAN-TV Live at 5.
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|Video: The many uses of a Digital Twin with emergency services - Bill Gregory | Video courtesy of Surveytech YouTube Channel | 12 December 2022|
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