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WGAN-TV Training U (in Matterport) | Matterport Pro3 Camera: First Impressions; plus, Pro3 versus Pro2 and Pro3 versus Leica BLK360 | Guest: Southern 3D Tours Matterport 3D Imaging Specialist Larry Gamel | Episode: 161 | Thursday, 29 September 2022 | | @GamelLarry | WGAN-TV Podcast | WGAN-TV Podcast

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WGAN-TV Podcast | Matterport Pro3 Camera: First Impressions; plus, Pro3 versus Pro2 and Pro3 versus Leica BLK360 | Guest: Southern 3D Tours Matterport 3D Imaging Specialist Larry Gamel | Episode: 161 | Thursday, 29 September 2022 | | @GamelLarry | WGAN-TV Podcast | WGAN-TV Podcast

WGAN Forum Podcast | Matterport Pro3 Camera: First Impressions; plus, Pro3 versus Pro2 and Pro3 versus Leica BLK360 | Guest: Southern 3D Tours Matterport 3D Imaging Specialist Larry Gamel | Episode: 161 | Thursday, 29 September 2022 | | @GamelLarry | WGAN-TV Podcast | WGAN-TV Podcast

WGAN-TV Podcast | Matterport Pro3 Camera: First Impressions; plus, Pro3 versus Pro2 and Pro3 versus Leica BLK360 | Guest: Southern 3D Tours Matterport 3D Imaging Specialist Larry Gamel | Episode: 161 | Thursday, 29 September 2022 | | @GamelLarry | WGAN-TV Podcast | WGAN-TV Podcast

WGAN Forum Podcast (Audio Only) | Matterport Pro3 Camera: First Impressions; plus, Pro3 versus Pro2 and Pro3 versus Leica BLK360 | Guest: Southern 3D Tours Matterport 3D Imaging Specialist Larry Gamel | Episode: 161 | Thursday, 29 September 2022 | | @GamelLarry | WGAN-TV Podcast | WGAN-TV Podcast

WGAN-TV eBook | Matterport Pro3 Camera: First Impressions; plus, Pro3 versus Pro2 and Pro3 versus Leica BLK360 | Guest: Southern 3D Tours Matterport 3D Imaging Specialist Larry Gamel | Episode: 161 | Thursday, 29 September 2022 | | @GamelLarry

Matterport Pro3 Camera shot Matterport digital twin by Southern 3D Tours Matterport 3D Imaging Specialist Larry Gamel | @GamelLarry

Matterport Pro2 Camera shot Matterport digital twin by Southern 3D Tours Matterport 3D Imaging Specialist Larry Gamel | @GamelLarry

Matterport Pro3 Camera shot Matterport digital twin by Southern 3D Tours Matterport 3D Imaging Specialist Larry Gamel | @GamelLarry

Matterport Capture app Mini-Map for the Matterport Pro3 Camera digital twin (above) by Matterport digital twin by Southern 3D Tours Matterport 3D Imaging Specialist Larry Gamel | @GamelLarry

WGAN-TV Training U (in Matterport) | Matterport Pro3 Camera: First Impressions with Larry Gamel and Pro3 Versus Matterport Pro2 Camera/Leica BLK360 Scanner

Hi All,

[WGAN-TV Training U course above]


Transcript below: For anyone on the fence deciding whether to buy a Matterport Pro3 Camera, this WGAN-TV episode will be super-helpful.

Buy: Matterport Pro2 Camera | Matterport Pro2 Acceleration Kit


1. What are the first impressions of the Matterport Pro3 Camera by a Matterport Service Provider that uses a Pro2 (and has used a BLK360 scanner)?
2. How does the Matterport Pro3 Camera compare to a Matterport Pro2 Camera?
3. How does the Matterport Pro3 Camera compare to a Leica BLK360 Scanner?

On Thursday, 29 September 2022, my guest will be Southern 3D Tours Matterport 3D Imaging Specialist Larry Gamel .

By this Thursday, Larry expects to have done his third Matterport scan using the Matterport Pro3 Camera: including one house that he scanned with the Pro3 and Pro2; and two new construction homes that he is expects to scan on Tuesday, 27 September 2022.

Added on Thursday, 29 September 2022:

Larry writes, "I did the two new construction jobs and they went well. I've also done a job for [redacted] that was 4800 SQFT with around 10,000 SQFT of exterior. It took a little over 2 hours. I also did a short term rental and had to use the pro 2. That's when the differences really stood out."

In the last five years, Larry has done:

1. around 800 Matterport digital twins with a Matterport Pro2 Camera
2. Matterport digital twins of many large spacing; including nearly 120,000 SQ FT
3. Matterport digital twins scanned with a Leica BLK360 Scanner (paired with Matterport Capture app)
4. Matterport digital twins for 3rd party companies
5. Matterport scans for his real estate practice (In addition to being a MSP, Larry is a REALTOR)

What questions should I ask Larry during the show?



Join the WGAN List | Join WGAN Forum

Matterport Pro3 Camera | Matterport Pro3 Camera Acceleration Kit

Transcript (video above)

Dan Smigrod: Hi all, I'm Dan Smigrod, Founder of the We Get Around Network Forum. Today is Thursday, September 29th, 2022 and you're watching WGAN-TV Live at 5.

We have an awesome show for you today: Matterport Pro3 Camera First Impressions; Including Pro3 versus Pro2 and Pro3 versus Leica BLK360, and my guest on today's show from Southern 3D Tours, the Founder and Matterport 3D Imaging Specialist, Larry Gamel. Hey Larry, good to see you. Thanks for being on the show.

Larry Gamel: You're welcome. Good to see you too.

Dan Smigrod: Larry is based in the Greater Atlanta area. He got his Matterport Pro3 Camera just days ago and has had a chance to do some scanning and we're going to talk about that in a moment, but Larry, before we jump into today's topic, how about telling us about Southern 3D Tours?

Larry Gamel: It actually just started out with a fluke. I do real estate. I bought the Matterport Pro2 Camera for our listings. Other agents started asking me to do theirs and then I've had some companies reach out to me about doing hotels.

Then from that I'll start doing small businesses and everything like that for Revit and 3D imaging and it just keeps growing. It's growing on its own.

Dan Smigrod: How many Matterport tours do you think you've done to date?

Larry Gamel: Probably over 800.

Dan Smigrod: Eight hundred Matterport tours and that is mostly with the Matterport Pro2 Camera?

Larry Gamel: Yes.

Dan Smigrod: The categories you mentioned: residential real estate, other categories?

Larry Gamel: Hotels, convention centers, hotel rooms, vacation properties, kiosks. I've done Starbucks kiosks and little grocery stores. Really, stuff I never even imagined that would have gotten the scan.

Dan Smigrod: How about in terms of large spaces? Have you done many large spaces?

Larry Gamel: My record right now is 120,000 SQ FT. It's a hotel in downtown Atlanta and that was a single model with five floors. That was a fun one but it took me about four days. It was during the Braves winning the World Series.

Dan Smigrod: Does that mean you were scanning from 1 am to 6 am?

Larry Gamel: Yes, when I thought there would be no traffic and everybody was up celebrating which made it a little more of a challenge so that was interesting.

Dan Smigrod: Yeah, I can't even imagine how you accomplished that, but congratulations on such a large Matterport digital twin. You mentioned that you got the Matterport Pro2 3D Camera to do residential real estate. Was that for your real estate business?

Larry Gamel: Yes. It's mine and my wife's together. We do real estate together.

Dan Smigrod: Okay. The name of the business is?

Larry Gamel: Southern Home Management Solutions.

Dan Smigrod: www.SouthernHomeManagementSolutions.com ... Also in the Greater Atlanta area.

Dan Smigrod: How did it actually happen that you bought your first Matterport Pro2 Camera?

Larry Gamel: We were on vacation and of course like most REALTORS, we like to look at properties so I had seen a Matterport Tour. I will say it was in Mexico Beach and I just thought it was the neatest thing on earth and I love technology.

Of course I told my wife I want to do this and what she's saying, the price of the cameras, she said "no, you're not." As you can tell, I won. It was a bet that we had made and I won the bet and got the camera and it's been going ever since then.

Dan Smigrod: Do you recall what year that was?

Larry Gamel: I would say 2017, 2018. It was December 2017.

Dan Smigrod: About five years.

Larry Gamel: I'm coming up on anniversary.

Dan Smigrod: You've been doing residential real estate as a real estate agent for?

Larry Gamel: Eighteen years.

Dan Smigrod: Eighteen years. Congratulations, that's awesome!

Dan Smigrod: For your Southern 3D Tours business, I heard you say Matterport Pro2: I believe the camera that you got started with? [Yes]. You now own a Matterport Pro3 Camera. And what about a Leica BLK360 Camera/Scanner?

Larry Gamel: I bought a BLK360 back in March [2022]. I just wanted to be able to scan outside; to include that part in the tour. And the BLK360 is an awesome camera, but when you're working with Matterport, it's like watching paint dry to do an outside scan.

It just takes so long and you have connection issues, so I sold it. It was actually a little bit over a month ago.

Dan Smigrod: What was the impetus for selling the BLK360?

Larry Gamel: It just wasn't working and when I heard that the Pro3 was coming out which is more compatible with Matterport, it was a better fit. So I was just basically taking a chance.

Dan Smigrod: Great. Do you recall how many scans – Matterport digital twins – you did with the BLK360?

Larry Gamel: Seven.

Dan Smigrod: Seven. Okay. Well, that's interesting because I was probably about a $20,000 investment. I can't imagine how that conversation went with your wife. ;-)

Larry Gamel: Didn't! [Both Laugh!]

Dan Smigrod: Well, you must be a good salesperson because you made the sale for the Matterport Pro2 3D Camera with your wife, probably a $4,000 decision back then and you somehow got the okay or maybe you hid the receipt and didn't tell her you just bought a $20,000 camera.

Larry Gamel: We've done well with the Matterport stuff. It's extra income. She's fine with it. She knows I wouldn't do anything crazy, but she knows it was hurting me more than it did her.

Dan Smigrod: Awesome. I think in the context of 800 Matterport tours over five years; doing residential real estate; hotels; kiosks; retail; malls; and other spaces; doing large spaces using a BLK360. I think that's going to be helpful to actually understand your Matterport Pro3 Camera experience. So you got your Matterport Pro3 Camera, I want to say on Friday, just six days ago.

Larry Gamel: Yes.

Dan Smigrod: What are your first impressions?

Larry Gamel: Absolutely love it. Of course, probably like everybody that gets a Pro3, the first thing I did was scan my house and see what it will do. The next day I scanned one of our listings which I had them with the Pro2, the week prior, and that's the one that we had on your page and that's one.

Dan Smigrod: We Get Around Network Forum ... www.WGANForum.com We'll talk more about that in a moment. What other spaces have you had a chance –

Larry Gamel: I've done two new constructions. Then a 4,500 SQ FT office building – and he wanted the outside done – so I went about 25 feet away from the outside: a little over 10,000 SQ FT.

Dan Smigrod: I think I heard: one, two – existing homes; two new construction homes; and an office building. So you've done five tours with the Matterport Pro3 Camera?

Larry Gamel: Yes.

Dan Smigrod: Other initial thoughts?

Larry Gamel: No where near the alignment issues that you wouldn't have with the Pro2. It just lines up. It's so much easier. Yesterday, I had to do a vacation rental and they are on a Matterport Classic Plan so I had to use the Pro2 and it was like going from a motorcycle back to a bicycle.

Dan Smigrod: Just for clarification for our audience, you have a Matterport Pro3 Camera that needs the new, current Matterport pricing but you have a client that's on Matterport Classic Plan and since the Pro3 doesn't work with Classic Pricing, you needed to use your Pro2 to do this particular client's project.

That's actually probably good or bad for you, but good for us because now that you have to go use your Matterport Pro2 Camera for a client that had a Matterport Classic Plan rather than using your new Matterport Pro3 Camera, how did that feel?

Larry Gamel: Slow. Of course you get some of the alignment issues when you're going into small bathrooms, and stuff like that, doing closets.

The Pro3 just grabbed it, spot on every time. You can look at the walls – the way they line up with this Pro3 – and it is exact, compared to the Pro2, which you have to watch it real close to make sure you don't get a misalignment.

Larry Gamel: It was a lot faster. I'm averaging about 26 seconds. I've been clocking per rotation, including uploading onto my iPad.

Dan Smigrod: Did you compare that to the Pro2?

Larry Gamel: Honestly, I have it.

Dan Smigrod: It felt faster using the Matterport Pro3 Camera?

Larry Gamel: Yes, considerably.

Dan Smigrod: Were there other initial impressions just overall on the Matterport Pro3 Camera? I do have some specific questions, but I just wanted to give you a chance with an open-ended – your thoughts?

Larry Gamel: I've had to rework lighting because the light bar that I had on the Pro2, of course, wouldn't work with the Pro3, so I've worked out a light bar system using a GoPro, an LED, and then mounting and a level on top of it just to make sure that everything is accurate, had to improvise, and get that worked out.

But, all in all, there's a lot of similarities to the Leica BLK360. But as far as integrating with the Matterport system, the Pro3 is so much faster, just lining up, especially when you go from interior to exterior: it's seamless.

Dan Smigrod: Let's talk a little bit more about the Matterport Pro3 Camera versus the Leica BLK360 Camera/Scanner.

They both do the same thing in terms of a Matterport Service Provider, meaning enabling you to go outside, do high ceilings, do large spaces. Now that you've sold your BLK360, do you have any regrets selling it?

Larry Gamel: I wish I could have gotten a better price, but it come up with a G2 and therefore, all the processes that G1 responded to –

Dan Smigrod: Second Generation Leica BLK360. But you were specifically purchasing the Matterport Pro3 Camera as essentially a replacement for your BLK360.

Larry Gamel: Yes.

Dan Smigrod: Because the BLK360 enabled you to do things like outdoors, large spaces, high ceilings.

Larry Gamel: I wanted [our brokerage] to stand out because when I first started doing the Matterports, nobody was doing it here in Georgia, as far as their listings, and now you are starting to see them. They're becoming more common. I wanted to be able to do exteriors to make myself stand out amongst the crowd.

Dan Smigrod: Was that the primary reason? Exteriors?

Larry Gamel: Yes.

Dan Smigrod: I'll ask you the question, and it may be too basic for our audience, but how does the Matterport Pro3 Camera compare to the Matterport Pro2 Camera for doing outdoors?

Larry Gamel: I'd have to convert the 360s to 3Ds with the Pro2; it was doable, but it was very time-consuming and you had to be very close together, and you had to watch for errors.

Dan Smigrod: I guess the way I would describe it: Matterport enabled the 360 Views so that you could shoot those outdoors without having the issues of sun, and a structured light camera, and the challenges there.

But really – I guess I would say shooting outdoors with the Pro2 is more of an art than a science trying to shoot outside in what you have to accomplish. I'm guessing the part of your decision to go even spend $20,000 on the Leica BLK360 was essentially saying the Pro2 doesn't really work outside; Period. End of paragraph.

Let's talk a little bit more about outdoor scanning. You now have the Matterport Pro3 Camera. You've done at least, I want to say two spaces outside. Did you do more than that with the Pro3?

Larry Gamel: Actually, all of them are outside.

Dan Smigrod: Awesome. I know that on the WGAN Forum we have one of your Pro3 shot spaces. Are there any more spaces you'll be able to share publicly?

Larry Gamel: I can't really share those publicly because I was working as a subcontractor for other people, and then there's clients with new construction, and everything, and I'm hosting.

Dan Smigrod: When you can, that would be great. There is at least one sample – today – from you on that We Get Around Network Forum that is the same property shot with the Pro3, and a Pro2 so that they can be compared.

I want to focus just for the moment on the outside. What is it like creating a Matterport tour with a Matterport Pro3 Camera outside?

Larry Gamel: You can go 15 feet. That's about what I've been averaging. I'll do like a close-up about 8 feet, and then another one about 18 feet away so you get the close-up, and further away to get the full view. You can go 15 feet away. I'll do 10 feet if there's a lot of landscape, and just to eliminate any risk of shadows or dark spots.

Dan Smigrod: For clarification, you're talking about the distance between each Pro3 camera scan?

Larry Gamel: Yes.

Dan Smigrod: Matterport on their website says you can be as far as 26 feet apart between scans. But that said, I guess there's some 'walking around experience' that you're looking for, whether you've been spacing it out about 10 feet.

Larry Gamel: I'm not pushing the Pro3 to the capabilities. I know I'm not because I'm trying to make a product where you can get the full effect or you could walk around the room, and also on the house, you could walk around as though you're at the property.

Dan Smigrod: I'm going to ask you more about inside in a moment, but if we stay outdoors for a second, did you have any alignment issues?

Larry Gamel: No, it was awesome.

Dan Smigrod: You couldn't do the same thing with the Pro2. That's virtually impossible unless you're really an artist doing it.

That's just because you're challenged, and want to do that, not because from a business standpoint, it makes any sense to use a Pro2 outside. [Time involved] But you did use a Leica BLK360 outside. Did you have alignment issues or problems or is it just the amount of time that it took for it to rotate.

Larry Gamel: Really amount of time, and going from the Pro2 to the Leica BLK360, you have to place it in the exact spot, and let it take over. It worked, but it didn't work well.

Dan Smigrod: So far, if you haven't had a lot of experience, but of properties you've done outside with the Pro3, you're smiling: big grin. It looks like you're loving using the Matterport Pro3 Camera outside?

Larry Gamel: Yes. Compared to the BLK360, yes. The BLK360 was a very slow process, and like I said, is the equivalent of watching paint dry.

Dan Smigrod: How would you compare the digit twin viewing experience of the Pro3 versus the Pro2? Because you did have a side-by-side comparison [in the www.WGANForum.com].

Larry Gamel: The image quality, I really can't tell that much of a difference. I can see a little bit of a difference, but it's a pretty high resolution image anyway.

Dan Smigrod: I looked at your tour, and I couldn't tell the difference between which one was shot with the Pro2, and which one was shot with the Pro3. Could you tell the difference of shooting with the BLK360 in terms of the image quality?

Larry Gamel: It's night and day. The BLK360, no matter what you set it to, you could never get the same image quality.

Dan Smigrod: The Pro2 has a better image quality than the BLK360, but you use the BLK360 to accomplish things you couldn't with the Pro2 but now that you have the Pro3, it sounds like the Pro2 is now just your 'just in case; if I have to' because somebody has the Matterport Classic Plan or at least, "I have a backup if my Pro3 camera fails" or something.

Larry Gamel: Or if somebody just wants an interior and wants long-term hosting, I can still utilize my Matterport Classic account for that.

Dan Smigrod: I'm just trying to think a little bit more in terms of outdoors, thinking of the bright sun. Did you scan during the bright sun? Were there any issues?

Larry Gamel: Only issue I had was when the sun was later in the day so, you could see the tripod, and the Pro3 camera in the shadow, and it was pointed out to me that I was in one of the shadows, so I was told I wasn't moving fast enough.

Dan Smigrod: You learn. I think it's an interesting thing.

If you have all the time in the day, then you say, "I'll scan at noon because the sun will be overhead, and there won't be a shadow," but you run a business, and you can't just say, "I'm going to scan between noon and 1 pm, so the reality is if you have a bright sunny day, and it's nowhere near noon, you're going to have these long shadows of the camera in the tour.

But frankly, you and I might care as photographers, but anybody who's buying property, they might go, "Well, that's interesting," but they're focused on buying the property. They're not focused on, "Oh, I'm never going to buy this property that has a shadow of the camera in it." ;-)

Dan Smigrod: I think we talked about outdoors in terms of the image quality of the Pro3, the ability to move the camera at a greater distance, I'm not sure if I said, the quality of the imagery. I guess I would ask you about the data, but I think from what you've described, you don't really use the Matterport MatterPak or the Matterport e57 file.

Larry Gamel: I have clients that do.

Dan Smigrod: Have you had a client yet that uses the Pro3 – taking the Matterport MatterPak or the Matterport e57 file?

Larry Gamel: I did a job yesterday. The large job I did – outside – for the architect, and I heard back from him today after I sent him everything, and he said that was one of the best tours he's ever seen, as far as the quality –

Dan Smigrod: Is that visual or is that the data; the scan data, the mesh?

Larry Gamel: That was visually. I think I've talked a little bit longer to get the Matterport MatterPak, so if he had ordered it –

Dan Smigrod: Do you publish to his account?

Larry Gamel: Yes. I uploaded it to mine and transferred it over to him.

Dan Smigrod: In that case, if the architect was going to use the Matterport MatterPak or the Matterport e57 file, then he would download it directly. You wouldn't necessarily know.

Dan Smigrod: I would say probably for most [MSPs] who might need the data.

Dan Smigrod: The Pro3 versus the BLK360, I'm going to guess for the majority of the We Get Around Network Forum community, the Pro3 "Level Of Detail" is going to be just fine, and not need to buy a Leica BLK360 or just like you say, "I can get rid of this for various reasons." We've talked about outdoor.

Dan Smigrod: Was there anything else on outdoor?

Larry Gamel: That's about it.

Dan Smigrod: On indoor, you did the same house twice. Do you recall when you did it with the Pro2 versus the Pro3, was it about the same amount of time? I know you said the camera rotates faster, the Pro3 rotates faster than the Pro2.

Larry Gamel: I spent about an hour and 30 minutes on that house with a Pro2 and it was because of – I don't know if you remember why the bathroom was laid out in the laundry room and the extra bathroom went into the garage.

It was just a nightmare with the alignment issues so it took me a little while. With the Pro3, when I did the same job, I was able to do the inside and the outside and I remember it was under an hour and 10 minutes.

Dan Smigrod: Which is actually fascinating because I think even though Matterport says that the Pro3 is four times faster than the Pro2.

They also have a caveat to say, and it will probably take you about the same amount of time using a Pro2 versus a Pro3, doing indoor spaces. But I think what I'm hearing that might be different is if you don't have alignment issues and you're able to keep moving and not have to go back because the alignment was a problem when you have to redo a scan, that's probably the biggest time-saver.

Larry Gamel: It is. Dealing with alignment issues when you have small rooms, I'm sure if you're standing, small rooms and doors at a 45 degree angle; it is just a nightmare.

Dan Smigrod: Talk about that a little bit more. About a tight space: what you're describing in terms of the bathroom, the garage, the closet, and being super-tight and barely being able to fit the camera through a door at a 45-degree angle and somehow negotiate all that. What was your experience with the Pro3?

Larry Gamel: It grabbed every time and it lined up perfectly. I think I've only had one misalignment and I was just pushing it a little far to see what I could do and it just gave me an error and backed up a little bit and it was good. I don't have near as many misalignments. I'm afraid when I get spoiled: not watching my model as closely as I'm scanning – That's where you cut down on the scanning time.

Dan Smigrod: How about in terms of standing behind the camera while it rotates? Do you do that or do you hide?

Larry Gamel: In the middle of the room, I'll go behind it in a corner, of course, there's nowhere to hide.

Dan Smigrod: The Pro3 camera rotates faster than the Pro2. Was that a problem staying behind the Pro3?

Larry Gamel: No. You just have to watch it because you're having to stay away from not only the front but the side because you have the rotating lens so you have to stay directly behind it.

Dan Smigrod: Was it obvious to you where to stand while it was rotating?

Larry Gamel: Yeah.

Dan Smigrod: Have you done any jobs with high ceilings with that BLK360? Maybe a ball room, hotel lobby, ginormous lobby?

Larry Gamel: No, I wish I had the Pro3 a week sooner because I had about a 20,000 SQ FT hotel that I had done. That would have been – The Pro3 would have saved me so much time. It would have turned out so much better.

Dan Smigrod: I imagine, also, it might have had a high ceiling.

Larry Gamel: Yes. There was a ballroom and a three-story foyer; so it would have been great for that Matterport model.

Dan Smigrod: I think that's probably one of those other advantages of the Matterport Pro3 Camera is high ceilings like a ballroom, a gymnasium, an atrium, a stadium, etc. and you actually were caught between when you sold your BLK360, but the Pro3 hadn't come yet. But you had that large job to do.

Larry Gamel: That particular job, they didn't want a BLK360 because it's basically a hotel advertising their space so they want the image quality along with the model?

Dan Smigrod: BLK360 was not an option. It just meant also, I guess, on your dollhouse view, the ballroom wasn't as nice as it could have been with the Pro3, I want to say since Matterport says the camera can be moved 26 feet, that implies that data, we'll see 26 feet.

They actually say this, whatever this Matterport e57 file is, which really matters to an architect, for example. The camera will actually see 330 feet; so essentially what that means, in that ballroom, it was not as high as a football field. But had it been, it would have captured the data that the architect would get in that Matterport e57 file.

Dan Smigrod: Will you ever get to go back to that hotel and rescan it or do you have a desire to do that just personally because you want to see –

Larry Gamel: From what I understand, they're planning on remodeling the exterior, so they told me that I'll probably come back and that happens a lot.

Dan Smigrod: That's awesome! That's very exciting. Had you had your Pro3 to do the hotel instead of the Pro2, what would've been the problem-solving or the advantages of the Pro3; from your perspective, for that project?

Larry Gamel: Time. With a hotel lobby – or a common area – you have foot traffic so you really have a very short window where there's not a lot of people coming through, so I could have probably done that one in probably two-thirds of the time that it took. I think I had about four hours invested in that and I believe I could have done that one about 2.5 hours.

Dan Smigrod: Because the camera is that much faster?

Larry Gamel: That much faster and the spacing because with the Pro2, I was scanning every 6 feet, With the Pro3, I could have probably moved the camera every 10-15 feet.

Dan Smigrod: Then, do you happen to use a dolly?

Larry Gamel: I don't use the rolling dolly. Just because a lot of time where I'm scanning, there's multiple levels.

Dan Smigrod: How about in terms of weight? Matterport says the Pro3 camera is 35 percent lighter. Did you have any sense –.

I guess what I'm thinking about is on doing

Dan Smigrod: this large hotel and you're constantly picking up your tripod with a Pro2, you're building muscles here. Maybe you want that or don't want that.

Larry Gamel: It's not that heavy. ;-)

Dan Smigrod: From my perspective, it's somewhat heavy so having a third less the weight sounds like it would be a plus doing a large space where you're constantly picking up the camera and moving it.

Larry Gamel: It is noticeably lighter. It's noticeably smaller, as well. I think the funny thing is, I was so accustomed to grabbing the handle and the tripod just for fear of the Pro2 drop-in with this one right here, I don't have a handle to grab onto so that's an adjustment, just because I'm a creature of habit.

Dan Smigrod: Where are you grabbing to move the Pro3? Are you grabbing on one of your tripod legs? Are you grabbing just below the Matterport Pro3 Camera?

Larry Gamel: Just below between the camera and tripod leg.

Dan Smigrod: Is it above the leg and below the camera?

Larry Gamel: It's the [tripod mount clamp] that they have, I grab it by that?

Dan Smigrod: That's what you're holding it by?

Larry Gamel: Yes.

Dan Smigrod: Does that feel secure?

Larry Gamel: It does, but it's a brand new camera that would take forever to replace. I'm like, overly cautious with it.

Dan Smigrod: I'm just wondering, is it designed to be grabbed by the tripod mount clamp? That's where you pick it up and carry it from?

Larry Gamel: That I don t know. I would assume so just because it's about the size of your fist.

Dan Smigrod: Interesting. Well, maybe you have to reach out to Matterport and ask their opinion on that because I'd be a little bit concerned that that might put a lot of torque of holding it, with constant repetition to cause a problem as opposed to carrying the tripod.

Larry Gamel: It seems very strong. Because you've seen the pictures and the rotation, it looks off balance. [Yes.] It holds it pretty well. It's just a little awkward at first, and it's a learning curve.

Dan Smigrod: I know that one of the members of the We Get Around Network Forum, posted that he would have preferred that the tripod mount clamp be made of a different material because he had some concern about how it would last over time.

Larry Gamel: I could say where there could be some improvements, but I'm not sure what they had to work with in today's environment.

Dan Smigrod: Exterior elevations. Have you done – or been asked to do – many exterior elevations?

Larry Gamel: No.

Dan Smigrod: Your architect had you scan outdoors?

Larry Gamel: Well, yes, he did want the outside done, so yeah.

Dan Smigrod: This is not something I would expect you to know about, but I suspect what the architect was doing was asking you to scan so that you would have scanned data that the architect could actually create the drawing of where the property sits on the land to show that outdoor elevation. I think the point is – the Matterport Pro3 is capable of outdoor scanning, shooting outdoors and up high. To get the visuals the Pro2 was not designed for outdoor – not designed for scan data outdoors. The BLK360: not the best pictures. The Pro3 solves all the Pro2 and BLK360 problems for doing outdoor elevations.

I mentioned that for our audience because I think that really is an opportunity for Matterport Service Providers who've been doing a lot of residential real estate or large commercial spaces, as it opens a door for architects that are working on creating As-Builts or elevations.

Larry Gamel: He was excited about the ability – because he has a Matterport Pro2. He's just out of state. It'd be cheaper to have me do it here. He was excited about the fact that I could do the exterior and see what the capabilities were.

Dan Smigrod: Awesome. I believe the four or so spaces that you shot with the Pro3 since you got it in this past week, have not been a large space.

Larry Gamel: The two new constructions, one was 2,700 SQ FT and the other one was 3,200 SQ FT.

Dan Smigrod: Yeah. I'm really thinking 20,000 SQ FT 30,000 SQ FT 50,000 SQ FT. While you haven't had a chance to use the Pro3 for a super-large space, what are your thoughts about being able to do that?

Larry Gamel: I would prefer the Pro3 over the Pro2. The job I had done yesterday for the architect, it totaled about a little over 15,000 SQ FT inside and outside. That was trimming off the edges and everything so it just gives a nice clean dollhouse. I'm actually looking forward to doing a much larger job with it.

Dan Smigrod: Okay. I guess that's the answer. You're super-excited about being able to do large spaces because you now have a tool that's designed to actually do large spaces. The Pro2 really wasn't. You could do a large space, but it really wasn't designed to do a large space.

Larry Gamel: The way this one lines up on a large space, as you know, if you do a large space, if you start off with being off 2 inches on your misalignment, 50 feet away and all of a sudden it gets huge, and then you're having to delete scans and start over again. This one is making very crisp lines and they are spot on every time.

Dan Smigrod: Are you seeing that on your iPad?

Larry Gamel: Yes. I'm so used to watching my iPad as I'm scanning just to see if there's any twist. As soon as I start to see a twist, I stop.

Dan Smigrod: Do you see that at all with the Pro3?

Larry Gamel: No.

Dan Smigrod: It looks spot-on.

Larry Gamel: Yes. The walls are crisp. You get the walls in between the rooms. They are crisp. There's no bleeding. If you're doing a large room – you know how in the Pro2 you would get a shadow effect. As you got closer, you could see where other scans were done and it wasn't clear.

Dan Smigrod: Yes, it actually gets frightening. It turns out sometimes you can still process it and it processes correctly, but you're holding your heart until you get the model back about whether there's going to be this torque in your model because it looks like that on your iPad.

Maybe it's just reassuring to know that it looks nice on your iPad and you're not having that anxiety about whether it's going to process or not.

Larry Gamel: Especially like on a window marking, did I mark the window on the right line? If you get some large rooms with window markings, you're looking at the shadow with a Pro2. You're hoping you'll hit the right one. But this one is pretty spot-on.

Dan Smigrod: When you were doing all your trimmings for windows and walls and such, did it feel like, "oh, this is much nicer, cleaner?"

Larry Gamel: Yes.

Dan Smigrod: Yes. Okay, cool. Does Level Of Detail (LOD) mean anything for you?

Larry Gamel: Yes.

Dan Smigrod: What does that mean and how does that translate for the Pro3 versus the Pro2 and BLK360?

Larry Gamel: It's more crisp; especially when you're scanning. With the hotels, they want visuals. With a lot of architects and everything and people that are doing the renderings, they want accuracy. Just everything lining up as far as the detail on the Pro3: it's noticeable.

Dan Smigrod: Matterport says the Pro3 level of accuracy is plus or minus 20, I want to say millimeters. There'll be okay, 360 within 6 millimeters, the Pro2 within 40 millimeters.

It sounds like the Pro3 is probably a really good compromise between – I don't know how to say – maybe we haven't talked about price yet, but pricing of a value proposition to say, well, for $6,000 to get the 20 millimeter Level Of Detail versus paying the $20,000 for the 6 millimeter LOD and not getting as nice photography – Again, I'm going to say for Matterport Service Providers in the WGAN community, the Level Of Detail that might be needed by architects and people in the construction space is probably going to be just fine.

If you were ever thinking about buying the BLK360, like you did, you won't have to do that because the Pro3 will be good enough.

Larry Gamel: Right. I'm very happy with my purchase. I really wish I would have held off on the BLK360 and saved myself a lot of money. But I had been waiting for so long because you've been talking about the Pro3 for quite some time in the WGAN Forum (www.WGANForum.com)

Dan Smigrod: I think we've been talking about the Pro3 for years. Like, well, what are all the features, the wish-list that the community would like to see? It actually looks like Matterport has nailed it in many ways. In terms of speed, we've talked about this in terms of inside.

Matterport says it should take about the same amount of time as the Pro2, even though the camera rotates faster. I think, again, what we talked about earlier was, if you don't have misalignment errors and you can just keep moving at a faster pace and it rotates faster, you actually might be able to do space faster.

The reason I wanted to talk about this is that many in our community (www.WGANForum.com) really just shoot residential real estate. My initial impression, just reading through the specs on the Pro3 was, if you're just doing residential real estate and maybe some commercial real estate, not that much, the Pro2 is probably good enough.

On the other hand, time is money. If you can afford the $6,000 upfront payment for the Matterport Pro3 Camera to pick up the speed, then maybe you could actually do more jobs in a day or get done with your day sooner; because you're not having the alignment errors that you talked about earlier.

Larry Gamel: Yeah. That's pretty much and not to mention just the ability to do the outside. Some agents may not pay to have the outside scanned and that's fine. I think as it becomes more common, agents are competitive. They don't want to be the one left behind. They will start to ask for these.

Dan Smigrod: Have you run into competitors in Atlanta – in the greater Atlanta area?

Larry Gamel: Not really. Almost everybody that's doing scan up here I'm friends with and we talk and we share tips and we work well together.

Dan Smigrod: At the very least, the Pro3 gives you yet another way to differentiate because you can shoot outdoors, shoot high ceilings and et cetera. Price: did you buy the Matterport Pro3 Camera for $6,000 or the Matterport Pro3 Accelerator Kit for $8,000?

Larry Gamel: Just the $6,000 one. Then I had ordered two additional batteries and a second charger (leave one at home).

Dan Smigrod: There were things that were in the Accelerator Kit that just didn't mean anything to you. You didn't need the Matterport e57 files? You didn't need the Matterport MatterPaks?

Larry Gamel: Yeah.

Dan Smigrod: You got two extra batteries.

Larry Gamel: I've ordered two extra batteries. They are supposed to be here Monday. Then I ordered an extra charger through Amazon.

Amazon canceled the order and told me it would be the end of October to reorder it. I will have two extra batteries. But the battery time, it's actually holding up better than I thought it would. When I did the two jobs –

Dan Smigrod: I don't recall the specifications. I want to say it was 2.5 hours per battery for continuous scanning.

Larry Gamel: Two and a half to three hours is what they were saying.

Dan Smigrod: What was your experience?

Larry Gamel: The two new constructions that I did were side-by-side, of course, and it was about two hours, 30 minutes between the two of them. My battery was at 47%. That was pretty impressive. I was actually expecting to be down to 20% and be sweating bullets. But it actually did well.

Dan Smigrod: Are you going to return the two batteries that you bought that haven't showed up?

Larry Gamel: No, I'm going to keep them because it's always good to have one aside.

Dan Smigrod: Of course if you're doing large spaces, you're going to need it. I think that's – one of those great things that Matterport did on the Pro3 was the being able to have replaceable batteries so that you could swap them in and keep scanning.

Larry Gamel: On that large job, I always limited each day to the battery. Of course you can't plug up the Matterport Pro2 Camera and charge it while using it. For the Pro3, I will have an extra charger so I can charge on site and be running one and have a charger at home so I'm not having to move the charger back-and-forth.

Dan Smigrod: Yeah. -Awesome. I think that's a great point. You might put one in your car with an AC power inverter Price: so $6,000. From your perspective, was that a lot of money, a little money, just right?

Larry Gamel: -A little money. After buying the $20,000+ BLK360, It was a breeze writing that check. Price-wise, for what it does, actually, I think it's a pretty good price. We all would have loved it to be cheaper.

Dan Smigrod: -Yeah. My impression, Larry, is that Matterport – this is just my impression, Matterport maybe selling it at cost because it doesn't need to make money on the camera. It makes its money on hosting, processing.

It makes its money on add-ons: MatterPaks, the Matterport e57 files, the floor plans. I think, in part, that Matterport really wants to enable as much scanning as possible. If you are Leica, you probably have to make your money on the BLK360.

You couldn't just take a loss on everyone or breakeven. But I think Matterport is uniquely positioned in that they could charge, which I think is a very reasonable price of $6,000. Maybe not make money. I don't know.

Maybe they do make money, but I'm thinking not make money on the Pro3, but make all their money on Matterport Cloud accounts and all the add-ons that exists today and will exist and all the other fees that they get from Matterport Partners related to the use of the API and SDK Kit. From your perspective, since you literally wrote a check, was it close to $20,000 that you spent?

Larry Gamel: -For the BLK360?

Dan Smigrod: -Yeah.

Larry Gamel: -By the time I paid taxes and everything it was $21,800.

Dan Smigrod: $21,800. How did your pitch go for the Pro3 with your wife? You probably didn't even talk to her.

Larry Gamel: -No. We talked about it. She says, you know what you're doing.

Dan Smigrod: -Plus you were going to pay for the Pro3 by selling your used BLK360 anyway, because, hopefully, you got more than the cost of the Pro3. I won't ask you, but hopefully –

Larry Gamel: -Yes. Everybody told me I did well with it. But the gentleman that bought it was amazed with the condition of it. He was excited.

Dan Smigrod: -Yeah. Well, less than 10 BLK360 scans.

Larry Gamel: -Yeah

Dan Smigrod: -Price from your perspective, it was a no brainer.

Larry Gamel: -I had decided it was under $10,000 and may have heard it talked about and that's under $10,000, I'm buying one the very second it comes out. I already decided to buy one.

Dan Smigrod: -When did you buy it? Does Matterport announced it – I want to say on –

Larry Gamel: -Tuesday, August 30.

Dan Smigrod: -It was a Tuesday, I believe.

Larry Gamel: -Yeah.

Dan Smigrod: -How soon after it was available did you buy it?

Larry Gamel: -I saw it at 8 am ET and I ordered it.

Dan Smigrod: -Right at 8 am.

Larry Gamel: -Yes

Dan Smigrod: -You got it?

Larry Gamel: -Yes.

Dan Smigrod: -Because I know there's many Matterport Service Providers that have placed orders through various channels and are still hoping to get it.

Larry Gamel: -Well, you had on [www.WGANForum.com]. You had talked about a gentleman who had reached out and talked to Matterport about the Amazon differences versus Matterport.

I had reached out to Matterport and asked them and they said they'll go ahead and basically ship it out. It took about a week to get here from California, of course, but they went ahead and took care of it.

Dan Smigrod: -All right, good. Do you anticipate that there's going to be projects that you'll be able to charge more for because of the Pro3 versus the Pro2?

Larry Gamel: -I'm keeping the fees the same.

Dan Smigrod: -Yes.

Larry Gamel: -Long-term hosting and I'm having to work on a different model. But I think the ability to do the exteriors, I'm not going to charge as much for the exterior as is on the inside. But I think that opens the door. I'm trying to find a happy balance between it being profitable and marketable.

Dan Smigrod: -Do you think that you'll end up doing more business as a result of the Pro3?

Larry Gamel: -Yes. It has already started. The architect that I spoke to, it was specifically just because I had the Pro3.

Dan Smigrod: -Ah! Because he needed the outdoors, he couldn't engage you to use the Pro2 because the scan data actually – even if you were an artist to get the scan outdoors with the Pro2 and maybe use the Matterport Cortex AI and convert the 360 Views to 360 Scans, the scan data would be a train-wreck for what the architect actually needs.

Larry Gamel: -Yes.

Dan Smigrod: -In the spatial data.

Dan Smigrod: How did that client find you so quickly?

Larry Gamel: -Through a mutual friend of mine. He's another gentleman who does scans and they had just told the guy to reach out to me that I already had the Pro3 camera and that can help them out. I was in the market. I said, I've got friends that do this and we all network and we look out for each other and share tips.

Dan Smigrod: -Good. Are there other categories of business that you anticipate being able to get? I'm going to say that that architect was actually doing an outdoor elevation.

Larry Gamel: -Yes.

Dan Smigrod: -As part of what was happening.

Dan Smigrod: Are there other categories of business that you think you might get because you have the Pro3 now versus using the Pro2?

Larry Gamel: -Hoping that getting the insurance disaster claims, we'll do it in homes where you can only do the inside but you can also do the outside, so insurance companies can use it for that. Kind of hoping for that.

I would really love just to do insurance companies, architects and hotels and stuff like that. Just doing commercial versus residential. Just because, as I was telling a friend the other day in residential, people will leave stuff out and you're having to move it for the tour to look nice.

Dan Smigrod: -Are you going to fire your wife; because you've been doing her scans? ;-)

Larry Gamel: -That will be too costly. ;-) I will always do hers! I am committed to that. And, I've got several agents that are clients that I will continue to scan for.

Dan Smigrod: -If Windy, your wife, Windy Gamel is watching, good news. Windy, even if husband Larry migrates out of doing residential real estate, he will ALWAYS continue to do Southern Home Management Solutions listings: www.SouthernHomeManagementSolutions.com If you want to check out Windy's business in the Douglasville, Georgia – Dallas, Georgia areas. I'm going to think that there's five categories that you're going to get more business: whether you know it or not, it's just going to happen as a result of the Pro3. The five are As-Builts; construction documentation; outdoor elevations (which you just did your first).

Larry Gamel: -Yeah.

Dan Smigrod: -Facilities Management and Space Planning.

Larry Gamel: -I agree with you. I can definitely see that.

Dan Smigrod: -On the As-Builts, I think, what's going to happen is; more architects and general contractors over time are going to work off of the spatial data. In that Matterport e57 point cloud file, or the Matterport MatterPak in order to construct a 3D model to begin their renovation. I think that Pro3 is going to do that.

Larry Gamel: -I have sent the data over to one of the companies that I contract for. I do As-Builts with the Pro2 along with (handheld) laser measurements.

I sent them the Pro3 data (example) on one job that I did for them to analyze and see if the Pro3 will work better because it'd be nice to be able to do a scan and I'll not have to take manual laser measurements.

Dan Smigrod: -Have you heard back from them yet?

Larry Gamel: -Not yet. I just sent it to her this morning. She was out of town.

Dan Smigrod: -Yeah. That's for an As-Built.

Larry Gamel: -Yes. That you already have an As-Builts client. But I'm hearing you're doing some manual laser measurements in addition to the Pro2, which is probably so your client can scale the Matterport model correctly.

That may be, you'll get out of the manual laser measurement business if you could use the Pro3 and your client can use the measurements with the Pro3 shot model. I think the answer is, yes. -That's what I'm hoping for.

Dan Smigrod: -Maybe you'll post in that We Get Around Network Forum on what you learn on that. Second one was construction documentation. Are you doing any weekly or monthly construction documentation?

Larry Gamel: -Haven't gotten into that yet.

Dan Smigrod: -I think that's going to happen because. again, the Pro3 – between the speed of capture, the reliability, not worrying about the measurements.

The other thing is, when you start doing construction documentation, you can begin where there's no roof, so now you have sunlight. Since you got sunlight, you have a problem with the Pro2. I think that Pro3 is going to solve that.

In Facilities Management, have you done any commercial office spaces where you had the MEP space – the mechanical, electrical, plumbing space – that you were doing for a commercial office building?

Larry Gamel: They are the same companies that I do the As-Builts for those jobs as well.

Dan Smigrod: That's great because I think you're doing the Pro2 with those.

Larry Gamel: Yes.

Dan Smigrod: I think the advantage of the Pro3 is they'll actually have the benefit of more accurate data collection. Then in any of those MEP spaces, have you had any high ceilings?

Larry Gamel: I've had a couple, but most of the time it's just a small office building that is getting remodeled.

Dan Smigrod: Yes.

Larry Gamel: It repurposed, I guess you could say.

Dan Smigrod: I think of that as being an As-Built. Space Planning: where I see this happening for you is when you're doing all these hotels, at some point, the hotels' clients – that come in and do conventions or booths.

They had to do measurements to figure out, for example, "will 27, 10 x10 SQ FT booths fit in this space?" "Will the stage fit here?" Old school – what happens is the client flies in to measure the space – to figure out the stage, the signage, the booths, etc, where you're already using your Pro3 or capturing all the measurements in three-dimensions.

I just can't imagine in the future people are going to want to fly in when they can just go to the Matterport model and take accurate measurements for the purpose of space planning.

Larry Gamel: One of the companies I actually capture for – just as a subcontractor – that's what I do, is on the convention floors or banquet halls, they virtually stage them for the clients.

That's how they sell the space with the space planning. There's one company, they are already ahead of the curve on that, so I think the Pro3 will actually work better for them.

Dan Smigrod: I think so. For that client, are you doing manual laser measurements too so that they can scale the Matterport model just in case?

Larry Gamel: They're not having me do those. They're just having the Matterport tours; and then they're just like virtually siting the properties.

Dan Smigrod: Yeah. I think space planning, I think it's great because, the five categories I think I've mentioned all but one of them, you're already doing that. As-Builts. Outdoor Elevations. Facilities Management. Space Planning.

I added Construction Documentation because I think that's going to be big and then you mentioned insurance claim documentation. Then the other side of insurance would be documenting a space for the purpose of insurance underwriting.

Larry Gamel: Yes.

Dan Smigrod: I think with your Matterport Pro3 Camera, there's going to be a lot of opportunities coming your way because of the Matterport Pro3 Camera; because you did invest in buying a Pro3.

Larry Gamel: I felt it's a good investment. Even if my business doesn't grow anymore than it's doing now, I'm still happy with the fact – just how much easier the Pro3 works. It's less stressful, just the precision.

Dan Smigrod: I think that's an interesting thing because a lot of times you'll look at things and you say, okay, even your Pro3 pitch probably to your wife, Windy, on this was "we're going to make money. We're going to save time.

We're going to accomplish more," something like that. There's three things. But what you didn't tell her, which is one of those extra benefits, it's just making your life easier because when we get into that – you were talking about the tight space with the bathroom, bedroom, garage, with all such a tight space, you get all these crazy misalignment errors, and you're saying, "oh my gosh, this is not fun.:

Larry Gamel: Right.

Dan Smigrod: Now, when you rescan the same space with the Pro3, you have none of those issues, so it's actually making your life easier.

Larry Gamel: Yes. I have zero regrets purchasing the Matterport Pro3 Camera. I wish the [pricing] plans would have worked a little bit better, but, you know.

Dan Smigrod: I'm sorry. You wish the –

Larry Gamel: The Matterport Classic Plan would work a little better, but that's a topic –

Dan Smigrod: The Matterport Classic Plan. We will talk about that on a different show.

Dan Smigrod: Larry's company, Southern 3D Tours. Website: www.se3Dimaging.com In the We Get Around Network Forum you'll see Larry posting,

Dan Smigrod: I guess he's got his first name backwards there, so it's: @gamellarry Larry, before we say, "bye,"

Dan Smigrod: If I was a Matterport Service Provider and I'm on the edge of my chair and I'm thinking about buying a Matterport Pro3 Camera, is there any reason not to go forward?

Larry Gamel: Not that I can think of unless you're just doing long-term hosting and you have a Matterport Classic Plan. If all you're doing is interiors and you do long-term hosting, the Matterport Classic Plan will work and the Pro2 will work.

If you want to expand and be able to have the ability to do exteriors and just opening up new doors, the Matterport Pro3 Camera is a worthwhile purchase. That's about the best way. I know there's a lot of people, are on the fence and a lot of people thinking about buying the Pro3: to each their own.

Dan Smigrod: It doesn't sound like you were on the fence at all since you've placed your Pro3 order – It sounds like within minutes of it actually going live –

Larry Gamel: Right. I had decided with the leaks that we had seen. When I saw the spec sheet on the leaks, it was a given.

Dan Smigrod: You were reading the We Get Around Network Forum (www.WGANForum.com).

Larry Gamel: Right.

Dan Smigrod: You saw that one of the WGAN members had posted that one of the Matterport official resellers of the camera jumped the gun; posted a Pro3 marketing page.

I screen grabbed the page; immediately published it in the WGAN Forum and it was all the specs on the Matterport Pro3 Camera. I think the only thing that was missing was the price.

Larry Gamel: Right. I think a couple of weeks later somebody had released the price (prior to launch). And we shared that with you and it's pretty much spot on.

I made my Pro3 buying decision awhile back because I have zero regrets with buying the Pro2 and getting into it. It's just turned into its own business, and I'm having fun with it.

I figured with the Pro3, I felt it would integrate better with the Matterport system than the Leica BLK360; so it was a given. If it was under $10,000, it was a guaranteed sale.

Dan Smigrod: Awesome. Larry, thanks for being my guest on the show today.

Dan Smigrod: Awesome. Larry, thanks for being my guest on the show today.

Larry Gamel: Well, no problem.

Dan Smigrod: We've been visiting with Southern 3D Tours Founder and Matterport 3D Image Specialist Larry Gamel in the Greater Atlanta Area.

I'm Dan Smigrod, also in the Greater Atlanta Area, and you've been watching WGAN-TV Li